Who is trading GTS for GT4 or spyder
07-08-2019, 12:29 PM
#46
To be fair though what we want - a 718 gts with no lag, that sounds like a 6 cylinder engine, with a strong low and mid range but with no additional weight penalty probably can not exist. It is all a compromise and what you value the most which is different for different buyers and enthusiasts.
I personally am still interested in seeing what the next series of Cayman road cars or even a wingless pdk version of the gt4 will look like.
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Semitone (07-08-2019)
07-08-2019, 12:33 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
Most people seem to be entirely consumed in lap time comparisons and HP wars nowadays yet these same people will likely never even take their car on a track. Porsche is one of the only brands that seemingly listens to enthusiasts and makes cars that appeal to their emotional connection to the vehicle. Look at the glowing reviews of the carerra T for example. Its not a world beater but its fun to drive and offers an increased connection from the driver to the car. Porsche GT cars do the same with the benefit of actual track performance added (if you are into tracking your car or simply knowing what its capable of).
I honestly dont understand the hate for this car at all. Im sure once the automotive journalists get their hands on them and the rave reviews start pouring in then people will change their tunes.
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07-08-2019, 01:13 PM
#48
I think a 911 GTS is a better dual purpose car. OK, so the 911 isn't mid engine but i was I was hoping Porsche would build a GT4 that I would want more than a 911 ( or 718) GTS. I don't hate Porsche, I'm just a bit let down. Does it show...LOL?
07-08-2019, 03:48 PM
#49
Advanced
I've read in an article today that the new gt4 engine will be used in many variants. Leads me to wonder if the turbo , especially 718 will be the Red headed step child and values moving forward would reflect. As much as folks claim this and that about that about it not being bothersome, it's still somewhat relevant.
07-08-2019, 04:45 PM
#50
Honestly I think people are missing the intent of a car like the gt4 if the main concern is ultimate power. A car like the gt4/spyder is designed for driving pleasure with a focus on overall sensory connection to the car. Its not always about being the fastest, most powerful, or most comfortable but rather the most enjoyable for someone who truly loved driving and feeling connected to their car.
Most people seem to be entirely consumed in lap time comparisons and HP wars nowadays yet these same people will likely never even take their car on a track. Porsche is one of the only brands that seemingly listens to enthusiasts and makes cars that appeal to their emotional connection to the vehicle. Look at the glowing reviews of the carerra T for example. Its not a world beater but its fun to drive and offers an increased connection from the driver to the car. Porsche GT cars do the same with the benefit of actual track performance added (if you are into tracking your car or simply knowing what its capable of).
I honestly dont understand the hate for this car at all. Im sure once the automotive journalists get their hands on them and the rave reviews start pouring in then people will change their tunes.
Most people seem to be entirely consumed in lap time comparisons and HP wars nowadays yet these same people will likely never even take their car on a track. Porsche is one of the only brands that seemingly listens to enthusiasts and makes cars that appeal to their emotional connection to the vehicle. Look at the glowing reviews of the carerra T for example. Its not a world beater but its fun to drive and offers an increased connection from the driver to the car. Porsche GT cars do the same with the benefit of actual track performance added (if you are into tracking your car or simply knowing what its capable of).
I honestly dont understand the hate for this car at all. Im sure once the automotive journalists get their hands on them and the rave reviews start pouring in then people will change their tunes.
07-09-2019, 12:06 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
Most of you probably know this but I'll add my 2c for those new to Porsche and who might be deciding between a GTS vs GT4.
These days the gap between GTS and GT cars is getting smaller and smaller. Take for example the 991.2 GTS Nurburgring time is faster than a 991.1 GT3 and only 12 sec off the 991.2 GT3 time but that is presumably with road going tires, so probably close to the same time with R compound. Similarly, the 718 GTS laps the Nurburgring same time as old GT4 with road tires and probably with larger Cup 2 tires and aero it will lap close to the 718 GT4, let a lone if you run a stage 1 or 2 tune on the GTS.
Of course the GTS cars are more comfortable, practical and more subtle. Sure they don't have the howl of an 8000 or 9000RPM NA 6 but they are overall quieter and I like the idea of a weekend away with my wife and being able to cruise down the motorway without any drone or engine noise. Or a drive into the city to see a show without looking like I'm driving a race car. The 718 GTS looks like a very nice Porsche sports car but it is not over the top, it is not mid-life crisis material, and it blends in nicely with the traffic, which can be a good thing particularly if your SO is not a motoring enthusiast. It is a great compromise without really sacrificing much performance.
Don't get me wrong, I think the 718 GT4 looks awesome and it does look like a race car with the more aggressive front splinter and rear wing, and I would love to have one in my garage but I don't think it would be as comfortable doing the above.
Performance wise the main difference is you can lap the GT cars out of the box over and over again whereas the GTS you probably need to upgrade brakes and tires if you want to go as hard lap after lap.
I can see why many people buy a GT car, particularly with club sport package, because they use it for driving to track days and other motor sport events then they drive it home but they don't necessarily use it for going out or on holiday. Whereas the S or GTS is great for that. Although it is a shame you can't get a club sport package with a S or GTS as I wouldn't mind the added security of the roll cage when doing tight tarmac rally style drives which the 718 GTS is great for.
So these are obviously cars designed for different purposes but with very similar levels of performance.
I think if the 718 GT4 comes out with PDK it could be a game changer, but it still wont change most of the above practicalities of the GTS.
In the mean time, I will probably upgrade my PDK 718 GTS with lighter wheels and larger Cup 2 tires and probably larger Girodisc brake upgrade which should keep it on par for the time being.
These days the gap between GTS and GT cars is getting smaller and smaller. Take for example the 991.2 GTS Nurburgring time is faster than a 991.1 GT3 and only 12 sec off the 991.2 GT3 time but that is presumably with road going tires, so probably close to the same time with R compound. Similarly, the 718 GTS laps the Nurburgring same time as old GT4 with road tires and probably with larger Cup 2 tires and aero it will lap close to the 718 GT4, let a lone if you run a stage 1 or 2 tune on the GTS.
Of course the GTS cars are more comfortable, practical and more subtle. Sure they don't have the howl of an 8000 or 9000RPM NA 6 but they are overall quieter and I like the idea of a weekend away with my wife and being able to cruise down the motorway without any drone or engine noise. Or a drive into the city to see a show without looking like I'm driving a race car. The 718 GTS looks like a very nice Porsche sports car but it is not over the top, it is not mid-life crisis material, and it blends in nicely with the traffic, which can be a good thing particularly if your SO is not a motoring enthusiast. It is a great compromise without really sacrificing much performance.
Don't get me wrong, I think the 718 GT4 looks awesome and it does look like a race car with the more aggressive front splinter and rear wing, and I would love to have one in my garage but I don't think it would be as comfortable doing the above.
Performance wise the main difference is you can lap the GT cars out of the box over and over again whereas the GTS you probably need to upgrade brakes and tires if you want to go as hard lap after lap.
I can see why many people buy a GT car, particularly with club sport package, because they use it for driving to track days and other motor sport events then they drive it home but they don't necessarily use it for going out or on holiday. Whereas the S or GTS is great for that. Although it is a shame you can't get a club sport package with a S or GTS as I wouldn't mind the added security of the roll cage when doing tight tarmac rally style drives which the 718 GTS is great for.
So these are obviously cars designed for different purposes but with very similar levels of performance.
I think if the 718 GT4 comes out with PDK it could be a game changer, but it still wont change most of the above practicalities of the GTS.
In the mean time, I will probably upgrade my PDK 718 GTS with lighter wheels and larger Cup 2 tires and probably larger Girodisc brake upgrade which should keep it on par for the time being.
move if left up to me. In the meantime, the GTS is a great blend of every day usability while punching way above its weight on the track during the occasional DE.
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07-10-2019, 10:54 PM
#52
Drifting
As I said above, my 718 GTS is screaming fast on track. The turbo 4 sounds odd, but is shockingly fast. My experienced track friends in GT4s cannot keep up with this little monster, especially when I mount my downsized HREs with Cup 2s. My only complaint with the car after quite a few track days over the last 12 months are:
1. PTV is too intrusive, I have gone through a lot of rear pads
2. steering feel and feedback are great at driving around town speeds, but once on the track the steering gets alittle numb.
Overall, if somebody wants a bargain fast track toy, pick up a CPO 718 GTS. I usually drive my RS for track events, but its nice to switch it up at times.
1. PTV is too intrusive, I have gone through a lot of rear pads
2. steering feel and feedback are great at driving around town speeds, but once on the track the steering gets alittle numb.
Overall, if somebody wants a bargain fast track toy, pick up a CPO 718 GTS. I usually drive my RS for track events, but its nice to switch it up at times.
07-10-2019, 11:07 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
As I said above, my 718 GTS is screaming fast on track. The turbo 4 sounds odd, but is shockingly fast. My experienced track friends in GT4s cannot keep up with this little monster, especially when I mount my downsized HREs with Cup 2s. My only complaint with the car after quite a few track days over the last 12 months are:
1. PTV is too intrusive, I have gone through a lot of rear pads
2. steering feel and feedback are great at driving around town speeds, but once on the track the steering gets alittle numb.
Overall, if somebody wants a bargain fast track toy, pick up a CPO 718 GTS. I usually drive my RS for track events, but its nice to switch it up at times.
1. PTV is too intrusive, I have gone through a lot of rear pads
2. steering feel and feedback are great at driving around town speeds, but once on the track the steering gets alittle numb.
Overall, if somebody wants a bargain fast track toy, pick up a CPO 718 GTS. I usually drive my RS for track events, but its nice to switch it up at times.
I've driven the 718 GTS on the track in PDK and was blown away, and I actually didn't mind (liked?) the exhaust note. It was soooooo loud.
07-10-2019, 11:31 PM
#54
Drifting
PDK. The sound complaints are real, the flat 6s sound much better. But for performance its a bargain package, especially if there are plans to drop it all together - however, I have my doubts due to emissions standards.
07-11-2019, 03:11 AM
#55
I don't think the sound complaints are really justified and they are not representative of most 718 owners but mainly from overzealous journalists and others who are online.
Sure the 718 GTS is not a howling NA flat six but that is not a fair comparison and rather it is comparable to other nice sounding 4 cylinder turbo engines.
I also enjoy the quietness of the GTS in normal or cruising mode which is great on the motor way and putting around town. The PDK will change gears before the engine reaches 2000 RPM which offers very pleasant and relaxing driving when needed.
I think there is an in between rev range that sounds a little metallic when not under load.
However, when driven hard it comes into its own with a nice growl up to 5000 RPM which then changes into a nice high pitched ring up to the 7500 RPM red line. Sure, there are better sounding engines like Audi's 5 cylinder RS3 engine or their V10, or Porsche NA flat 6 but the 718 GTS sound is not bad, just different from what many old Porsche drivers or enthusiasts might be used to, but this is a new age. I'm actually looking forward to the future performance figures on a fully electric Cayman. It should be similar weight or lighter but with a lower center of gravity, massive torque and maybe more power. I think it will be a significant leap in performance. Take the Volkswagen ID-R for example. It certainly has a nice wiirrr to it and of course the performance to match.
Sure the 718 GTS is not a howling NA flat six but that is not a fair comparison and rather it is comparable to other nice sounding 4 cylinder turbo engines.
I also enjoy the quietness of the GTS in normal or cruising mode which is great on the motor way and putting around town. The PDK will change gears before the engine reaches 2000 RPM which offers very pleasant and relaxing driving when needed.
I think there is an in between rev range that sounds a little metallic when not under load.
However, when driven hard it comes into its own with a nice growl up to 5000 RPM which then changes into a nice high pitched ring up to the 7500 RPM red line. Sure, there are better sounding engines like Audi's 5 cylinder RS3 engine or their V10, or Porsche NA flat 6 but the 718 GTS sound is not bad, just different from what many old Porsche drivers or enthusiasts might be used to, but this is a new age. I'm actually looking forward to the future performance figures on a fully electric Cayman. It should be similar weight or lighter but with a lower center of gravity, massive torque and maybe more power. I think it will be a significant leap in performance. Take the Volkswagen ID-R for example. It certainly has a nice wiirrr to it and of course the performance to match.
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07-12-2019, 05:48 PM
#56
The sound complaints aren’t justified? Really??
Of course it’s not going to be the 718 owners who are the ones complaining about the 4 cil and the sound. They still bought it anyhow. It’s the ones that didn’t buy it ...
Of course it’s not going to be the 718 owners who are the ones complaining about the 4 cil and the sound. They still bought it anyhow. It’s the ones that didn’t buy it ...
07-12-2019, 07:44 PM
#57
Exhaust sound quality is highly subjective. For those that want to improve the sound of any exhaust, there are several after market options to chose from. Personally I prefer the robust sound of a performance 8 cyl engine, especially with a racing cam. Nothing like the lopping sound that it makes at idle. The artificial popping sounds on many performance cars don't impress me.
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07-12-2019, 07:50 PM
#58
Wow...the GTS is only a 4 pot? The thing was so much faster than earlier Caymans I thought it was a flat 8. Live and learn... /sarcasm
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Chester7 (07-16-2019)
07-12-2019, 08:02 PM
#59
I have a 2019 CGTS PDK. I love everything about the car except the high rev sound and to a small degree a coarse engine feeling at high revs. Have had car for 3 months and have almost 4k miles on it. I think the power delivery and handling are perfect and also think F4 sounds good at lower RPM. I drove the 981 and loved roar of F6 at high revs but wanted a new Cayman configured exactly as I wanted including Burmester. I do believe there will be a non GT4 F6 718 released but I am skeptical the new F6 will sound as good as the old one, but certainly better than F4. And yes, I have tried with and without Soundaktor. Casual non car enthusiasts tell me my car sounds good! I think I just need to focus on the great drive and listen to my Burmester!
07-15-2019, 08:56 PM
#60
I had a 2018 Boxster GTS for one day as a service loaner. I am very impressed.
It is a sweet little car, smooth, comfortable, and very powerful for the street.
GTS models are suppose to be a bit more sporty than the S but not as raw as a GT car. Boxster GTS fits the slot well.
GTS or GT4 really depends on the purpose of your purchase
Having owned a 981 GT4, I can say it is nowhere as usable on the street as the 718 GTS.
GT4 is noisy, stiff; the clutch is heavy, the powerband is above 4K and you don't have much low-end torque to give you punchy acceleration.
In comparison, 718 GTS is much more comfortable, quieter, with easy torque to drive and feel fast.
If you want to enjoy the GT4, you have to push it hard: hit high rpm, and stay in that range. Then the power delivery becomes strong, linear and immediate. The sound gets louder, the tone is way more open and metallic.
This is where the GT4 becomes more enjoyable than the 718 GTS. Even if they are equally fast, GT4 is raw, direct and delivers relatively 'unfiltered' driving experience. (I still believe GT4 is faster with the right settings and a good driver lol)
However, you can't do this on the street. What makes GT4 special is also what makes it not so good for the street.
If I can only choose one, I'd pick the GT4.................. for the weekend and get a normal car for boring daily duty.
It is a sweet little car, smooth, comfortable, and very powerful for the street.
GTS models are suppose to be a bit more sporty than the S but not as raw as a GT car. Boxster GTS fits the slot well.
GTS or GT4 really depends on the purpose of your purchase
Having owned a 981 GT4, I can say it is nowhere as usable on the street as the 718 GTS.
GT4 is noisy, stiff; the clutch is heavy, the powerband is above 4K and you don't have much low-end torque to give you punchy acceleration.
In comparison, 718 GTS is much more comfortable, quieter, with easy torque to drive and feel fast.
If you want to enjoy the GT4, you have to push it hard: hit high rpm, and stay in that range. Then the power delivery becomes strong, linear and immediate. The sound gets louder, the tone is way more open and metallic.
This is where the GT4 becomes more enjoyable than the 718 GTS. Even if they are equally fast, GT4 is raw, direct and delivers relatively 'unfiltered' driving experience. (I still believe GT4 is faster with the right settings and a good driver lol)
However, you can't do this on the street. What makes GT4 special is also what makes it not so good for the street.
If I can only choose one, I'd pick the GT4.................. for the weekend and get a normal car for boring daily duty.
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