Rassel

Posted this in the racing section, since most here are familiar with tracking, choosing line and sees what's quick or not. So, is it the real deal or a big Nissan GT-R propaganda show?

986

No this is not propaganda.

The video is from Hot Version. It's a popular Japanese program similar to Top Gear/Fifth Gear. They pit supercars against each other in each episode.

The test drivers all race JGTC. The host (in red jacket) had a class win at Le Mans with an NSX, and was 2nd overall in the Toyota GT One when they were ran off track by a backmarker.

Rassel

I'm well aware of the credits of the drivers, especially Tsuchiya. Also where this was aired and the quality of the show. But lets keep that out of the equation and just let the video speak for itself. There is clearly something fishy with it

DaveM993

I'd like to know what the tires were on both cars.

Rassel

Interesting, it seems the GT-R has some serious turning capability in the video. It's running stock 255 in front and 285 in the rear while the Porsche has 235 in front and 305 in the rear. Somehow the 997TT tires seems to scream a lot - while the GT-R is all quiet.

The Porsche is 3494.3 lbs and the Nissan GT-R is 3836 lbs. Though the GT-R in the video seems to feat. Recaro seats and not the standard seats....?

Larry Herman

Even up, there is no way that the Nissan can out-brake the Porsche, so that is suspect right there. Also, there were many turns that the Porsche driver apexed early, held the apex, and then slid the back of the car at trackout. That clearly is not the way to drive that car. That race was all for show.

1AS

A few observations (perhaps unwelcome) and a question.
First, the question. We assume the SC was turned on in the 99ttt. But, after you get the 10 seconds of overboost, how long do you need to wait for another 10 seconds? If it doesn't come back immediately, all the published 0-60 times become meaningless by the second straightaway. The reason I ask is that by the second lap, the Porsche was also not quicker on the straights. I thought some power went away.
Now the observations: The Porsche doesn't turn in as well, and requires trail braking to enter. It invariably exists corners with the tail sliding (probably as a consequence), which looks good, but isn't as fast.
I will guess that the GTR has better weight distribution, which allows it to take advantage of it's larger front tire, and not need a larger rear. In the end, we are probably seeing the ultimate consequence of a big piece of metal housed in the tail of the Porsche, coupled with a factory philosophy that doesn't want the cars going off the road backwards.The 997tt architecture may be as "evolved" as it's going to get. There is a reason Porsche gets the relatively small front tire from the factory, and a consequence as we see on film.
I'm lucky to have a new CLK63AMG Black Series for comparison to my trusty 2002 996ttX50 (stock). My tt is faster than the Benz over 90 mph, but the Benz turns in MUCH better. I think we have to accept the compromises that are built into our cars. AS

Rassel

I think you need a four wheel setup check and someone who shows you how to use weight transfer for turning.

Geoffrey

Its a sad day when a sports car weighs 3400lbs, let alone 3800lbs.

Larry Herman

Wasn't the 928 lambasted in it's day for being an overweight 3300 lb GT?

Bri Bro

The Nissan weights more, has a little less torque and HP.

Nissan = curb weight 3836 lbs, 473HP, 434 ft-lb
997TT = curb weight 3494 lbs, 480 hp, 460 ft-lb

Driven the same, I think I know who will be faster.

1AS

I think my point is the Porsche might not have all the hp claimed when the sport chrono supplement erodes. One of the car mags raised this concern when comparing lap times.

The other point is that you can only go so far in managing extreme rearward weight bias, especially if you insist in fitting a small front tire to limit front end grip. While lighter is typically better, it becomes a problem if all the lightness is at one end of the car.

Finally, there are real technical problems of making awd cars turn, and it is very likely that Nissan has an advantage there. We really know nothing about static and dynamic camber, etc. in the Nissan. AS

MTosi

According to nurburgring laps times for productionscars the GT R (7:38.5) was only a half second quicker than the GT3(7:39) with 130lbft more tourque and 70 more hp. The turbo slotted in unofficially at a 7:40 which is just a rumored time. The 997 gt2(7:32) then blew the GT R away by more than 6 seconds. There has been quite a propoganda effort by nissan to make the GT R seem faster than the new turbo. Even if it is faster by a second for one lap that doesnt actually mean it would win a real race nor does it mean its a better race car. I would be willing to bet the porsche brakes are better and its a more solidly built car that would be far more consistent in a race. If I had my choice for a race I'd take the turbo over the GTR any day.

wanna911

The tires on the TT are shot, they even said it in the video, the TT is a press car that several people have flogged. The GT-R has racing seats and better tires. Put the same tires on the TT and use a manual (which is faster than the Tip) and the times would easily be even (about 2.2 seconds different)

Rich Sandor

Let's see how the GTR does against the 997TT when it's the Germans testing both cars.