Hi everyone, was wondering if anyone had any hi-res photos of any Beutler/Porsche cars. Beutler is my family name and I thought it would make some nice art for the house.

 

One of the Beutlers has posted on 356talk in the past, along w/ some photos of the 4 door 356s... he still has one of the 3 made...

 

I'm not a 356 specialist, but, according to my knowledge, Beutler, in Thun, Switzerland, did 6 bodies out of the 8 cabriolets that are part of what is called the 356 Serie 2, (Pre-A), i.e.: the ones that have been build in Austria (a total of 63 cars for the serie 2, and ..1 for the "serie" 1.
Yes, only one 356/1 exist, and, this is the only one that has the engine in the central/rear position. (Note that this car can be seen most of the time at the Porsche museum.)

You can find some pictures in the net of what I think is a Beutler Cab, i.e.:
http://www.supercars.net/Pics?viewCa...D=1&pID=900023
It is not high res, but you have the name of the photograph on it, so, if you like it, you may be able to find him and get the hight res.

This car seems to be a Swiss one, (I can recognize the 2009 "vignette", i.e.: the taxe that you have to pay annualy to be able to enter the Swiss freeways, as when paid, you get a sticker that should be visible on the windshield (in this case the pink sticker located in the lower part of driving side).

According to the following website :
http://www.typ356.de/beutler/
This car seems to be the 356/2-003, or Beutler 101.

By what I have read and learnt, the 6 Beutler made Gmund Cab have the chassis # :
356/2-002, called Beutler 100
356/2-003, called Beutler 101
356/2-021, called Beutler 104
356/2-024, called Beutler 103
356/2-028, called Beutler 102
356/2-030, called Beutler 105
when the two Keibl made cabs are:
356/2-025, called Keibl (C/1)
356/2-026, called Keibl (C/2)
..this to let you be aware that not all the Gmünd Cabs are from Beutler, ..only 3/4 of them !

I hope this help you a bit to find info and photos of some of these extremely rare cars.

 

You might find some shots on Bruce Sweetman's photo site (not to mention, many other great shots of neat old Porsches - he's a fine photog) - he's covered events where Jim Watson displayed his Buetler Coupe. Jim's was also featured in an artcile in Excellence a few yrs back.

http://www.brucesweetman.com/Automobiles

 

@ Ked : Dou you think the pastel green cab is a Gmund car ?
In my opinion, few things looks strange at this car. The most evident one is the Porsche emblem in the center of the steering wheel, this is the emblem that Erwin Komanda designed ..in 1952 !
So, imo, it cannot be present on any Gmund car, and I have doubt that a (very high end) collector, owning such a rare car would commit such restoration mistake !..But, again I'm not a 356 specialist, so, I would be very happy to learn if that green car (i.e.: the photo with the dog in the front of it) is a "Gmünd" car (356/2).

In the same direction, about the new Rennlist (beautiful) welcome photo, I would be very curious to know which type it is, I suppose that this is a "Pre-A", (but hre too, I dod not think either this is one of the 8 Gmünd cabs (Beutler of Keibl). Who can bring the answer ?

 

The green car is one of the 21 America Roadsters built in 1953. I believe that it is SN 12371.

 

If this the the (dog) car you referenced, it is not a Gmund car, but an America Roadster by Glaser in '52... kinda a "pre-A / pre-Speedster" if you will. Rare & valuable indeed. Made as a dual-purpose lightweight (Al & removable windshield) perf car for the American market, you can see it was styled to be appealing to us Yanks - kinda conservative like a Jag. Hoffman convinced Porsche to continue the idea in a less expensive (steel) & simpler, more aero shape - the Speedster was born.

The RL intro photo is of a split-window Reutter Cab.

 

very complete history of the type 540 (america roadster) can be found here:
http://www.stasher.us/America%20Roadster_1.html
of course ked is right, there were only 17. the green car is the only one made of steel with a fixed windshield.

 

Cam... & I thought YOU were right! so I edited out the reference to production #s... & then I looked more closely at the photo I took at the TN Tubs BBQ & thought... hmmm, that doesn't look like a removable screen, but Cab style. All part of the intrigue of the early 356s... always exciting to stumble upon any preA.

Porsche was more designer / assembler, not a fabricator, until they acquired Reutter. They did not keep detailed & consistent records (ever been in a rapidly growing company?) in the early days, as many like to assume about German businesses (well, the family WAS Austrian). thanks for the link, cheers!

 

[QUOTE= All part of the intrigue of the early 356s... always exciting to stumble upon any preA.[/QUOTE]

With their mid engines and tubular space frame construction the America Roadsters really don't have anything to do with 356s. They did have their own type number (540).

I know that I tend to be a cranky old fart but the term pre-a really bugs me. There were 356, 356A, 356B and 356C models built and sold by Porsche. If you identify a car as a 356 and someone thinks that you are talking about a 356B for example, they are just displaying their ignorance.

 

Yes, Ked, this is the one.
I expressed "with the dog", ..because in the given link, ..I found that one:



..So I felt they would be no confusion possible !
When I read your response, I understood that I created what could be understand as a bad confusion.
I like jokes, but in this particular case, never had this intension, and even more important, talking about Porsche, very sorry for that.

Thanks you for the accurate answer. I'm not surprise at all that neither are Beutler (or Keibl).
But, did I understand right from Camchain that the America Roaster has it's engine amidships ?
(Until today, ..I was thinking that only 356/1 was offereing this architecture for the "356" !)

 

GVA - no confusion / no apology needed... I just wanted to be certain we were talking about the same car - I hadn't looked at all the photos on Bruce's site.

the America Roadster chassis was based on the pre-A Cab, thus rear engined. it was intended for competiton in a production class, so I assume they deleted the rear seats for the sake of weight while adding some torsional stiffness via the extended rear cowl. I erred in stating it was built by Glaser... they were actually constructed by Heuer near Nuremburg (not the stopwatch biz) in W Germany, an offshoot of Glaser (which had become "trapped" - in E Germany). The early history of Porsche is just so damn interesting - in fact, the arc of Porsche from the Old Man in the 19th Century to the family & biz today is quite a window into Modern Western history ever since (1899 hybrid electric, designing WWI artillery, the P-wagen GP racers, the **** period & people's car, the post-war rise of Germany & Europe, Ferry: the 356 & 911, globalization, "family matters", Piech reuniting Porsche & VW... etc etc).

some data on the America...
1580 lbs.
70 hp 1500cc motor
0-60 9.3 sec
1/4 mi: 17.9 sec
top speed: 110
$4600.
(I imagine fuel economy wasn't too shabby, either!)

Cam; I double checked w/ Ludvigsen's EWE & he states the chassis was 356 Cab based - I don't think that could be easily converted to midengine, & the relationship of the decklid (in these photos) to rear wheels appears to confirm that. I can't recall examining the engine compartment - I should've. Of course the 550s were mid (the 540 was the internal designation for both the Am Roadster AND the Speedster, wasn't it?) ... I know how you feel about referencing Pre-A, but I don't know of a simpler way to distinguish a specific reference to an early 356 from the a generic reference to any/all 356s. Note to all - "Pre-A" was never used at the time of their production! & if we didn't have cranky old farts, interest in 356s would collapse.

 

my bad

 

I think at this point, ..to keep the goal of the topic, a photo of a Beutler Cab, from the 356/2 serie (in low res, with the copyright of the photographer) is a must :



..such a beautiful car.

 

now THAT is a beauty Beutler! love the rear "flares".
I've been fortunate to examine a number of properly restored & survivor early 356s & it is impressive the quality of materials utilized, attention to detail & excellent craftwork employed.

here's the dash of Gmund Coupe #45...