4Scargo

Okay, I have some extra dollars. I dodged a bullet, kind of, a year ago last October and had my money in a bank, not in investments

Now I don't own a home, (sold my house in FL in early '07 ) and like Porsches. I've owned eight, the longest was a '76 912E that I gave to my daughter. Lucky girl, lucky husband, too. I felt Porschlessness, so I bought an '03 C4S that I like.

I was introduced to the P-cars when my uncle showed up in '65 with a slate gray 356C. I was, obviously, hooked.

I checked on 356's a year and half ago, thought they were too expensive, bought the C4S. Though I still am attracted to the 356's.

Seems to me the prices keep escalating. Is this true?

What is the best buy in a 356 for app $25K?

Is a cab feasible for about $25K

PS I guess I need a push to get one so I can lie to myself that it is an investment. i.e. that I am making money quicker than the 1 - 2% I get at the bank.

WADDYATHINK?

raspberryroadster

best for you to do some research - there is wide disparity in pricing based on condition/quality of restoration/maintenance/etc. you can track pricing on forums like pelican or perhaps on craigslook.

in any event for a spare $25k you have may be best to keep in the bank, may not get much of a classic p-car and will cost a huge dollar to maintain....

h20skier

I don't see 25k getting you very much 356 Coupe even. Probably one that needs a chunk of work would be my guess

ked

4S,
"Seems to me the prices keep escalating. Is this true?"

No & yes... they aren't escalating right now, but very good examples will go up in the future (barring the colapse of Western Civ).

"What is the best buy in a 356 for app $25K?"

About half of one - a decent B or C.

"Is a cab feasible for about $25K"

about a quarter of one, unless you consider restoring a complete basket-case as feasible.

"PS I guess I need a push to get one so I can lie to myself that it is an investment. i.e. that I am making money quicker than the 1 - 2% I get at the bank."

if you are a good & steady liar, you'll do fine. you missed the last bullet, so just keep reloading.

buy a very nice driver 356 for what they cost, keep it, drive it & enjoy it. otherwise you're screwing yourself (imo). think of the investment angle as avoiding the costs of psychotherapy. check out the 356 Registry (+ the local chapter) to see what you're getting into.
cheers & good luck!

4Scargo

Thanks Ked. I didn't mean to **** off anyone, if I did, mea culpa...

Looks like $50K is the price range....right?

I guess what relit my 356 fire was one in the latest Panorama....'64 C, in Wisconsin for $21.5, and a couple cabs on Ebay that are, um, palatable.

Your expert thoughts and observations would help. I really am not trying to dish anyone. Just looking for some guidance, and who better than my fellow Rennlisters?

Thanks

ked

4S... **** ME off? no way - I'm from NY.

$50k is an appropriate budget for a nice 356. you might not even spend it all (at once). I suggest (to 1st time buyers) to look for an example that is already a solid driver, not to get sidetracked by color, yr (later is better for first-timers, though), powerplant (N, S, S-90 or SC) or options - condition condition condition is the wise thing to focus upon. it is key to get into the subculture... meet owners, ride in & drive the cars. inspect one w/ an expert, top-to-bottom. these cars rust as if they were Italian, often hidden under many coats of paint & god-knows what. do research (read "Buying, Driving, Enjoying a 356" by Schrager, & similar), be patient, enjoy.

here's a poc up yer way...
Fahr North Chapter of 356 Registry
Phil Saari
Shoreview, MN
651-484-0303
ps356er@aol.com

RollingArt

You can still find a nice B coupe for $25-30k. C coupes might be a little more, mainly because they come with 4-wheel disc brakes. All others are 4-wheel drum.

Nice cabs start at more like $65-75k.

As to investment status? I wouldn't really count on it being a good investment. Partly because you never know when something could break and cost a bunch to fix. That said, I've had my 1963 super coupe for 20 years and maintenance has so far been less than $1k. However I don't put many miles on it. You also need to store and insure it. More expenses.

After I bought my car, the market for them remained flat for the next 15 years. The value of my car never changed during this time. Now, in the last 4-5 yrs, my car has suddenly doubled in value. I believe 356 values continue to inch up even now in this terrible economy, while modern day Porsche values are crashing. The crash has even effected the almighty 993 values. I couldn't even begin to guess where the prices will go next. Maybe when the economy recovers the values will sky rocket. Maybe we're seeing a bubble in values right now that is about to burst. Could be we'll see another long stagnant period.

Bottom line. If you buy a good clean car, it can be enjoyed and maintained for a relatively small investment. It should at least hold it's value. It's a car you can use and enjoy and not lose your shirt on.

Any rust free 356 is a decent "investment".

Hope this helps you decide. Good luck.



Phil

RollingArt

Here's a perfect example. Found this on ebay. This car is even a "C", with four wheel disc brakes. Looks to be a very good price. Has a Buy it Now price of $27k.

Shows that they are still out there for under $30k.

GL



Phil


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/356C-...b9e63417#v4-31

ked

I agree, Phil, one might find a servicable 356 in the price ranges you mention.
However, for a first time owner (unless you really want to make a diy project of it), I'd advise seeking one where "... some surface rust... (on the) ... pans and longitudinals..." (hmmm, on BOTH sides of the metal? curious to see the trunk & batt box w/o the plastic cover & spare in the way, too) has already been fixed. might as well do the seats when you do the carpets... so might as well do the whole interior. & paint looks fat to me, so when it's time to redo, might as well take it down to metal & do it right. & there's always the suspension & brakes. yeah, I'd say 'round $50k total for car + parts & labor when all is said & done...

Or, just enjoy the "great driver quality condition" since it "runs & drives perfectly", for as long as possible. but do not forget that ppi.
even on this one...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

raspberryroadster

i searched around 356's for a longtime, and unless you have a reasonably large budget (imo +50large)
to cover purchase of a reasonable example then enter into solving "issues" OR are an extreme DIY guy with shop full of tools and lots of ability then you are better placed in another p-car series (911's pre 89 or better yet 964 series, still aircooled/kartlike drive/rock solid build)....personal view

wiggy

You need to be very careful with these cars. They are money pits if they are rusty, and alot of the stuff you dont see unless you know what you are doing. These cars were built to rust - its just natural. From the inside out. Best to get at PPI by somebody who knows what they are doing. Get as complete of a car as possible and know that shiny and pretty alot of times = paint and bondo with these cars - especially at the lower prices. A knowledgeable person will know what the gaps should look like, and how to find the problems. If you are on a budget on one of these cars, you gotta be super wary.

You don't own a 356, they own you.

RollingArt

LOL .

I like that line wiggy!



Phil

cal44

The 356 is fun. I appricate it more each time I go for a spin. Got mine two years ago for $27k. Needed $3k in parts (I do almost all of my own work) and the paint is a fifty footer. Upside? Cal. not rust car. That alone is worth a bunch of IRA money. Keep in mind that $10k buys a paint job and that's if there is no rust. From there...............you don't want to know.

bullfighter

I wouldn't call a 356 an investment, but interest in the series seems to be strong. I have one being restored now (356A Speedster), which isn't cheap. But, seeing a bare metal restoration is probably the only way to know how good the car is underneath. I've seen too many 356s with a lot of undercoating covering up who knows what, so frankly for any amount spent I think you want to know what's underneath.

As others have posted, with 356s the real money is in the body/metalwork. "Minor bubbles" are often the tip of the iceberg.

It's also an incredible experience seeing it done, by the way. Watching the guys doing the leadwork, gaps, and engine rebuild is better than any resto film you'll see. And you have amazing confidence in the car when it's finally on the road, because it's solid and all dialed-in.

Regarding the money, my philosophy with all of my fun cars is that if I don't lose money beyond normal maintenance costs then I'm extremely happy with the deal. I've sold my last two for what I had paid for them, which makes this more affordable than going through the new car depreciation cycle.

The challenge with the 356 series is that the pushrod coupes still can't be restored without leaving you upside down. The open cars can, but you're up to six figures pretty fast.

For $25K, I agree with the others here -- keep the money in the bank or safely invested somewhere. I would tell you to look for a restored (photographed and documented ) 356B coupe for $50K, but I haven't come across many. If you can buy someone else's (reputable professional) restoration, that's not a bad way to go.