sbelles

I know it's been discussed before but it's come up several times recently. I also know that almost nobody (including me) teaches it but after copying videos, I see myself doing it more then I thought. I've had a couple of foreign racers tell me that it's strictly a U.S. phenomenon. I think my propensity comes from racing older American cars on dirt and ice. I agree that there is less need in most modern cars and Porsches in particular but I don't like having my arms crossed. There are also some corners where I just feel a lot more comfortable with my hands in front of me at apex. I know many will disagree but here are the questions:

1. Is there in fact a continuum of vehicles starting with an old Chevy truck and ending with a modern F1 car (steering ratios, power/ progressive assist, etc.) for which shuffle steering is considered to a lesser or greater degree appropriate?

2. Many, if not most DE students are driving streetable cars with airbags. If the student has their arms crossed when they hit something, they are apt to sustain pretty severe injuries. Ideally you don't want them touching the wheel at impact but sometimes there isn't time to convey that information let alone have them comprehend it. Is shuffle steering more or less appropriate for DE then it is for road racing?*

I've not heard of any specific injuries relating to airbags but especially in PCA, that could be attributed to the fact that 911s still dominate and they tend to back off the track.

va122

OMG! I never considered that! I suppose you would be crossed up when you wreck futily trying to countersteer up to the last moment...How do I turn off my airbag?

mark kibort

Ill put it real simple and clear.
How 'bout, you dont shuffle steer so you dont get in that airbag engaging event in the first place.

mk

va122

LOL! I stopped shuffling years ago for that reason...Uh...How many times did I unwind?

But seriously can I install a switch or something?

mdrums

My home track is Sebring and I strictly use the 9&3 grip except at turn 7 when I bring my right hand to the top of the wheel to pull it down for the hair pin right turn. I was taught this at Barber by Hurley Haywood, Cass Whitehead and all my PCA instrutors. I use a light grip on the wheel for a relaxed feel of the car and hook my thumbs for leverage. I just became an instructor with Chin and am working towards being a PCA instructor and have never been taught a shuffle steer nor will I teach it.

DanS911

Ummm .......left hand pull down for right turn........
I also am no fan of shuffle steering having to correct INTO a hands crossed position is no fun.
Even though your arms are somewhat crossed when cornering correcting BACK to hands and arms straight works for me.

mhm993

With the exception of a couple AX courses where I used one hand and spun the wheel (Did I really just admit that?), I don't find any track situations where I shuffle. I had the shuffle habit as a novice and quickly was broken of it by instructors I respected. I want to really know where 9 and 3 are when the back steps out.

va122

I may have caused a misunderstanding, I DON'T shuffle so I AM worried about being crossed up and getting hit with an airbag with a helmet and HANS and 6 pts.

How do i remove the airbag or install a switch?

Todsimpson

1. Shuffle steering is only appropriate IMO where there is no other option-tight corners.

2. Agreed with Mark above. Why do the wrong thing for thousands of corners on the slim chance of an airbag deployment.

If my student shuffle steers I don't make an immediate correction however. I practiced 9 and 3 for a while on the street before my first DE and it was definitely strange to cross my arms. Like heel and toe, it's not something to introduce at the track and immediately use. If they're shuffle steering I'll show them the right way and explain why they need to work on it in the future.

If you need to make a mid corner correction, you are better off with your arms crossed. The most likely scenario is that you’ll need to correct oversteer with less steering input or even countersteer. With arms crossed you simply uncross them. This is far more natural than going from uncrossed to crossed in the wrong direction.

Keeping your hands at the same position on the wheel also means you know exactly where the wheels are pointed, how much correction you’ve applied, and where you need to get back to once the correction has taken hold. Corrections need to happen instinctively, and super fast. Shuffling may be OK for goofing around in the snow but on pavement you’ve got a very small amount of time put the right correction in.

Getting the steering wheel close with spacers is very helpful so that you can comfortably cross. I've got about 90 degrees in my elbows.

mdrums

Thanks Dan, corrected my post....wifey calling for dinner and typing to darn fast. See ya soon!

ervtx

This is the habit I'm having the hardest time un-learning. You'd think I grew up driving a semi. It's subconscious, and I don't realize I'm doing it until I notice it on in-car video. Any other tips beyond steering wheel spacing on how to bypass the brain and force the hands to remain in position?

sechsgang

honestly, i think there is a mix...normally, Im two hands in nearly the same position all the time...sometimes Ill change but its more of a just get the hand back on the wheel wherever after shifting when in an intense situation, its better going into a corner with 2 hands anywhere when your goin' in with 3 other cars...haha

JackOlsen

My name is Jack Olsen and in some corners I shuffle steer.

sweanders

Is there really time to shuffle steer when going fast?

Sean F

part of the issue with the endless shuffle steering discussions is what the definition of shuffle steering is. If you're talking about driving like you're driving a bus on every corner, there's no place for that on the track. But, there are pros who do shuffle steer in some cars (sedans) in some corners. For example, Hurley Haywood does shuffle steer in some corners and does teach it when he instructs. I know of other pro instructors who teach it as well. As one pro told me, part of the issue is that you should always be steering with a light finger (not palm) grip on the wheel to be able to get the feedback you need through the steering wheel. Having your arms crossed up and gripping tightly with the palms prevents that just when you need it most. There are certain corners where I do shuffle steer, but I define that as moving one hand to 12:00 and sliding the other down so that I'm close to 9 and 3 at the apex with a relaxed grip on the wheel.