Boeing 717

Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w-40.

function12

Here is my repot. I run Mobile 0W40. Not sure what is going on with the Nickel??

Kevin

The TBN TEST should be requested if you run your oil past 5K miles. This test determines the strength of the additive packages LEFT or used up. This will give you the indication as to HOW LONG you can run the oil. Oil is cheap, these engines aren't.

TT-911

For those that are afraid to use the Mobil diesel oil :

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...sion_Cars.aspx

For those that fear Mobil 1 0w40 has not enough ZDDP :
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ssic_Cars.aspx

After some online research consensus seems to be that 1200to 1400 PPM ZDDP is ideal. Will protect engine and still not kill the cats.
So with that in mind 0W40 is a little low but should still be OK.
In a modern 997 engine it do not believe that ZDDP level is too low.

I am still going for the Valvoline VR1 next time.

Jerry, did you find ZDDP level for your Motul oil ? It's a recommended oil by Porsche so presume levels will be around the 1000 mark.
Why did you chose Motul ? Because of Porsche's approval ?

TT-911

Thanks, do you know why the TBN results are not given immediately ?
It is listed on the report as a test but no results are listed. Why? More expensive to test ?

Anyway, I agree oil is cheap, engines aren't but it is also true we should not waste a good product (environment, etc, bla bla). Modern oils last a lot longer than 3000 miles. Of that I am sure !

Btw, the tests posted here still show the ZDDP levels close to new oil. Is this not a good indication of wear ?
I ask because I do not know and appreciate your knowledge on the subject.

Kevin

Denis the EURO 5W50 Valvoline is not available in the US.

It's easy to say right now that 1000 PPM is suffice, when just 8 years ago we had 1600PPM and prior to 2000, we had 2000PPM.. These engines were designed for the higher levels.

Boeing 717

I had my Oil changed by a Certified Porsche mechanic who said he swears by the stuff and it was all he used so I was ok with it, at least for now. No Denis I don't know ZDDP levels, thought it was on this link but is not.
http://www.motul.com/system/product_...pdf?1357663396

Boeing 717

Well I think its just a separate test Denis and they charge an extra 10 bucks for it.

Kevin

Denis, there is a extra charge for it. It is not needed if one changes the oil out at 5K.. Most folks just don't ask for it. Every oil has a different additive package. Typically the Total base number will range from 11 to 14 on average with NEW oil out of the bottle. As you put miles on the engine, the additive package diminishes. I don't like running it down past 6.5 to 7.0.. Typically that is the 50% mark.

I have my hands on bearings every day.. I see the effect on the turbocharger bearings and engine bearings. I think that there are better oils than the Mobil 0W40. I would run Mobil 5W50 anytime. For those that change there oil every 3 to 4K miles Mobil 5W40 TDT and Shell Rotella T6 5W40 is good. These two oils will quiet down the IMS/chain noise. The Rotella has Moly in it, the TDT does not.

When I look at a oil report, I want to see what the oil has sheered down to, I look at the iron and aluminum wear, along with the chrome, and nickel. Like I have said before, the PERFECT OIL reverses the number trends in your oil samples. When you find that oil that FREEZES the wear patterns and lowers the trend>>THAT is the perfect oil.. One can also do this by changing the oil more frequently. I have had great results with pulling the two fuel pump fuses on oil change start up.

Macster

Not sure I'd agree with that. High levels of ZDDP were intended for use in flat tappet OHV engines with heavy valves (large: 2" or so) and heavy lifters, and rocker arms, oh and push rods, all of these required heavy valve spring pressures to keep the valves under control at high RPMs.

While our Porsche engines reach high RPMs their valve hardware is much lighter due to smaller valves, much smaller lifters, no push rods, and no rocker arms.

Also, GM found that with high levels of ZDDP spalling could occur at the cam lobe. This is covered in a GM tech bulletin from Dec 2007 IIRC.

See here:

http://www.archivedsites.com/techlink/2007/12/

TT-911

Thanks Jerry ! I agree with your mechanic, Motul is a good oil company and many swear by it.
However, this 8100 X-cess oil is on the Porsche approved list and from what I have learned those are all on the low site (1000PPM).

function12

Here is a company that sells a zddp additive and they say not to add it to modern engines.

TT-911

From what I have learned 1000 PPM is a decent compromise for modern engines. The GT1 block has been reworked over the years and I am sure Porsche tested it all. But I agree, we should do more if to protect our expensive machine.
It seems that 1300-1400 is the ideal level nowadays, do you agree ?
Doesn't harm any stuff like cats and protects the engine.

Some more questions if you do not mind:

- 5W50 , the spread is bigger and because of this oil shears more rapidly it seems.
Mobil 1 5W50 has the same level ZDDP as 0W40.
So why do you and recently Porsche (see my earlier post regarding Porsche dealers) prefer 5w50 Mobil1 ?

I ask especially as I am keen to try the new Valvoline VR1 5w50.

Mobil list of oils :
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf

5W40 TDT 1130/1250 PPM , still lower than the Valvoline !

TT-911

That goes without saying, adding stuff to good oil is a no no !
If you add a bottle of this stuff say goodbye to functioning cats.
But for sure we can chose oils which are better suited for engine protection and less for environmental reasons.
0W40 favors more environment. Others, with moderately higher levels offer more protection and are still ok regarding environment.
That's what I am after and thanks to Kevin it all makes more sense now !

Kevin

Macster, you are bring in a GM test on a 40 year old flat tappet Chev 350... The report noted NOT on a roller cam.. Apples to oranges.. Then why does Mobil 1 RACE designed for the Nascar flat tappet boys run 0W50 with almost 1800PPM?? Apples to oranges..

I am seeing thrust bearing wear on that was not in place 15 years ago. Back then the concern was heat and hot shut downs. Now we have shaft motion along the axial plane. BTW, the KO4 turbochargers in our cars share the very same thrust bearing system that the early 993TT and 996TT have.

Again, it is the oil and the additive levels that FREEZE or reverse the engine wear shown on oil reports. For the 993TT and air cooled engines we have a oil in place that does that. Mobil Vtwin 20W50.. I mention that just to offer encouragement that it can be done.