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Old 04-28-2012, 11:36 PM   #1
JPS
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Default How much of an issue is this? Rust???

Did due diligence, Rennfax and PPI and body PPI missed it, but now that I've seen it, how much of an issue is it, and what repair and when would it be needed?

It's up by the windshield. Pics make it look worse.
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'95 993 Midnight Blue Met. / marble grey coupe. 50k mi.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:59 PM   #2
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Not uncommon, especially if a car had some windshield replacements. In many cases, its due to installers scratching the paint and primer when cutting the old seal away.

I would not let that go very long, otherwise you wind up with rust holes in the channel where the seal rests and that leaks a lot of water into the car.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:11 AM   #3
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Rust is car CANCER. It looks like it is early stages but best to have it repaired ASAP, the windscreen should come out and the whole area be examined closely.

Mine was showing just like that from the outside so I insisted that the glass come out, it was worst where you could not see, even with the outer seal removed. Luckily it was not all the way through the metal and I had it repaired under the 10 year corrosion warranty, but that is long expired now.

If I was doing it again I would insist on an old style repair using wiping metal (70/30 lead tin alloy) rather than plastic fillers that body shops love so much. Metal does not shrink back and show through the paint, also unlike most plastic fillers, metal does not absorb moisture that causes the rust to begin again.

BTW, check all the bonded glass openings for rust, front, rear and sides as they are all prone to the same problem.

I still find it hard to believe that Porsche did not perfect the design of the body of the 911 by the time the993 was built, after so many years in production.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:24 AM   #4
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Well ****. Just goes to show you are never 100% sure. I sourced the car from Cali so there wouldn't be rust. I had a body shop look at it, a PPI, 2 or 3 Rennfaxes, I looked at the car when it arrived, and my shop had it for a month. No one saw it. Would it have made a difference? Probably not. Well, i suppose it depends on the cost...

What's this going to cost me?
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'95 993 Midnight Blue Met. / marble grey coupe. 50k mi.
JIC 8/11 kg + Tarret; RS sways, clutch; regeared; LSD; LWFW; chip; Euro Turbo/S front and rear; turbo wing; Techart cooling ducts; strut brace; HID; FPB; Recaro seats. Track days: Schroth 6 pt, Pagid Yellow, NT01, DAS, Halon, GoPro.

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95 993 Midnight Blue Metallic / Cashmere Cabriolet. 132k mi.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:08 AM   #5
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Where exactly is it? Even though it was really dark inside the warehouse when I looked the car over, I'm pretty embarrassed I didn't catch something that looks to be that obvious.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPS View Post
Well ****. Just goes to show you are never 100% sure. I sourced the car from Cali so there wouldn't be rust. I had a body shop look at it, a PPI, 2 or 3 Rennfaxes, I looked at the car when it arrived, and my shop had it for a month. No one saw it. Would it have made a difference? Probably not. Well, i suppose it depends on the cost...

What's this going to cost me?

I don't think any locale is immune to it, my car was a rarely driven So-Cal car until the early/mid 2000's when it migrated north to actually be used, and mine was all rusted up under the seals. Looked much like yours, just peeking out from under the rubber. I paid $1900 for a new windshield that I needed anyway and to have everything ground out, treated and a tiny bit of paint blending from (what was supposed to be) a good shop. I think about $200-300 of that was the extra work cleaning it up on top of a standard w/s replacement. But I do have some bad news; all the glass shops here said these are pretty difficult to get out in one piece, and you can't properly fix it with it in place. I'd budget a couple large for it just in case.


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Old 04-29-2012, 05:19 AM   #7
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I am in the process right now. I had similar signs and removed the front windshield myself.
That is my fifth day of cleaning, and it needs more time.
I would never give it to an installer to fix.
It needs so much prep, no way could be done at a shop in a day or two.
I inspected the rear windscreen channel, with led light and magnifying glass. Mat black no rust. I mean zero.
So I removed the rear windscreen, removed the urethane, zero rust.
I thought I will sand a bit and bond the contour...BANG rust rust rust.
All over the bottom edge, under the black primer.
Mind you my rear windscreen is original mount, with no wiper. So no installer scratched anything.
I highly recommend if you DIY a bit, to remove windshield, and you clean the rust, prep it,
and install the windshield.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geolab View Post
I would never give it to an installer to fix.
I don't intend to if I ever need to replace any of my glass.

Removing the sealant takes time if you don't want to scratch or scrape the original paint and primer.
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:23 PM   #9
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Thats it, selling all my cars and buying a DeLorean...all stainless steel.

All this stress over auto melanoma is killing me!

Ahh the hell with it, I'll hire a limo company, sit in the back and read my paper eating sandwiches made with Grey Poupon...hahahahaha

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Old 04-29-2012, 07:53 PM   #10
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This is a common issue, who PPI'd this and missed it?
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:20 PM   #11
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For the DIY windshield install -- how do you align the glass? Aren't factory shims needed? (or something like that?) My glass is desperately in need of replacement, and the main thing holding me back is not trusting any glass guys to do the job right.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:49 PM   #12
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In my humble logic, a window installer, good or bad, is rarely a good auto body repair pro, and usually more like zero body repair guy.
So the main worry for me is the rust, not the windshield.
To install, it is not rocket science, and all details are in the workshop manual.
Yes I got the factory matrices, and bought the 3M stuff for the install (costs loads).
Metal primer, activator, windshield primer, urethane, etc. I know what material is used in the install, and how much, no economy.
In the second picture, I pre-installed suction cups thinking
the windshield was going to be heavy. It should weight 2 to 3 kilos max. Like a feather.
I went to bare metal on all the frame. No patch healing attitude.

The rust spots I had were less than JPS pictures.
Last year, I removed the spots with a dremel without removing the windshield .

This year wanted to remedy the thing once and for all.
Upon removing the windshield, I had no brownish yellow stuff on the frame like above with Travis.
But upon close inspection, tiny bubbly surface across all the bottom frame.
Needs a lot of elbow grease, like 'hours of Dremel' from the point where you start removing the bubbles
Autoglass is going to do that ?
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:20 PM   #13
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There are template pieces you can order for your install. When my rear window exploded a few years ago I ordered a set and took them to the most recommended, experienced, and meticulous installer in the area. They had done the rear window replacement half a dozen times on a 993, but did not have the templates. I think I ordered them from Sunset. They were shipped from Germany.

They've "borrowed" them a few times for other 993's. I'd sell them to them if I wasn't worried I'd need them again.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
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There are template pieces you can order for your install. When my rear window exploded a few years ago I ordered a set
Here are the rear matrices...
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geolab View Post
...if you DIY a bit...
I gotta say...what I see you doing is a quite different than "a bit of DIY..."... ...at least for me...
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:58 AM
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