Are Ceramic brakes worth it?
02-23-2015, 09:46 AM
#61
Former Vendor
They are worth it if you will appreciate what they do for you and won't mind (or can avoid) their drawbacks. PCCB's won't stop the car faster, but they require less effort making it SEEM like they do. For some people that's enough right there. They are lighter, which some people will notice the reduced unsprung weight while others will not. For me this is enough right there but again a lot of people never will even notice it. What everyone does notice of course is brake dust and caliper rust- which you won't have with PCCB's.
Wear is a big question. Porsche initially called them life of car. With normal street use they probably are. But there's so much range, with some people racking up scores of track days, Porsche had to quit making longevity claims. They probably are life of car with normal street use. Its just hard to say for sure.
Drawbacks are fragility and replacement cost. Get clumsy changing wheels and if you hit one hard enough to damage it at all you're looking at the option cost to replace the rotors on that axle. They are sensitive to brake pad wear, so forget about running the pads down they should be replaced at 50-75% wear. A lot of this depends on your driving. All street driving, no matter how fast, you'll be fine. Very much track use though and you better replace the pads at 50% and even then plan on replacing rotors eventually. This is why so many track guys complain and switch to big reds. For them its a big factor. For you? Maybe not so much?
So bottom line if you'll be using your car on the street, maybe a dozen track days on street tires over your time with the car, will enjoy brakes that feel more powerful, clean attractive wheels and rotors, and maybe might even notice the improved ride then they are well worth the extra money. Think hard though if you plan on using it on the track very much.
Wear is a big question. Porsche initially called them life of car. With normal street use they probably are. But there's so much range, with some people racking up scores of track days, Porsche had to quit making longevity claims. They probably are life of car with normal street use. Its just hard to say for sure.
Drawbacks are fragility and replacement cost. Get clumsy changing wheels and if you hit one hard enough to damage it at all you're looking at the option cost to replace the rotors on that axle. They are sensitive to brake pad wear, so forget about running the pads down they should be replaced at 50-75% wear. A lot of this depends on your driving. All street driving, no matter how fast, you'll be fine. Very much track use though and you better replace the pads at 50% and even then plan on replacing rotors eventually. This is why so many track guys complain and switch to big reds. For them its a big factor. For you? Maybe not so much?
So bottom line if you'll be using your car on the street, maybe a dozen track days on street tires over your time with the car, will enjoy brakes that feel more powerful, clean attractive wheels and rotors, and maybe might even notice the improved ride then they are well worth the extra money. Think hard though if you plan on using it on the track very much.
RacingBrake offers the complete CCM upgrade for your 996/997 including the latest 991 GT3; Using ST or ZR1 discs, just replacing the rotors or the complete caliper kit,
http://www.racingbrake.com/category-s/7200.htm
02-23-2015, 02:19 PM
#62
Hi guys, some-time lurker, first-time poster here. I had the same debate with myself re ceramic brakes on a GTS cab and drove one car with and one without back-to-back on the test tracks at Porsche Centre Silverstone, UK. The stopping didn't feel that different (maybe a little less effort was required with the ceramics), but the difference in the car's 'feel' due to the reduced unsprung weight was considerable. Basically, the car with ceramics felt like it was wearing really expensive running shoes - lighter on its feet and quicker to respond to inputs - so the ceramics were what I went for. I'm a street driver, though, who will track the car occasionally or possibly never.
And there is also an additional question for the GTS re. rotating mass, in that centrelock wheels have less rotating mass than standard ones. Five bolts rotating away from the centre of mass causes more of a rotational effect than one big bolt right in the middle.
I reckon you'll love the car whichever option you go for though.
And there is also an additional question for the GTS re. rotating mass, in that centrelock wheels have less rotating mass than standard ones. Five bolts rotating away from the centre of mass causes more of a rotational effect than one big bolt right in the middle.
I reckon you'll love the car whichever option you go for though.
02-23-2015, 02:22 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
Hi guys, some-time lurker, first-time poster here. I had the same debate with myself re ceramic brakes on a GTS cab and drove one car with and one without back-to-back on the test tracks at Porsche Centre Silverstone, UK. The stopping didn't feel that different (maybe a little less effort was required with the ceramics), but the difference in the car's 'feel' due to the reduced unsprung weight was considerable. Basically, the car with ceramics felt like it was wearing really expensive running shoes - lighter on its feet and quicker to respond to inputs - so the ceramics were what I went for. I'm a street driver, though, who will track the car occasionally or possibly never.
And there is also an additional question for the GTS re. rotating mass, in that centrelock wheels have less rotating mass than standard ones. Five bolts rotating away from the centre of mass causes more of a rotational effect than one big bolt right in the middle.
I reckon you'll love the car whichever option you go for though.
And there is also an additional question for the GTS re. rotating mass, in that centrelock wheels have less rotating mass than standard ones. Five bolts rotating away from the centre of mass causes more of a rotational effect than one big bolt right in the middle.
I reckon you'll love the car whichever option you go for though.
02-23-2015, 02:23 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
Hi guys, some-time lurker, first-time poster here. I had the same debate with myself re ceramic brakes on a GTS cab and drove one car with and one without back-to-back on the test tracks at Porsche Centre Silverstone, UK. The stopping didn't feel that different (maybe a little less effort was required with the ceramics), but the difference in the car's 'feel' due to the reduced unsprung weight was considerable. Basically, the car with ceramics felt like it was wearing really expensive running shoes - lighter on its feet and quicker to respond to inputs - so the ceramics were what I went for. I'm a street driver, though, who will track the car occasionally or possibly never.
And there is also an additional question for the GTS re. rotating mass, in that centrelock wheels have less rotating mass than standard ones. Five bolts rotating away from the centre of mass causes more of a rotational effect than one big bolt right in the middle.
I reckon you'll love the car whichever option you go for though.
And there is also an additional question for the GTS re. rotating mass, in that centrelock wheels have less rotating mass than standard ones. Five bolts rotating away from the centre of mass causes more of a rotational effect than one big bolt right in the middle.
I reckon you'll love the car whichever option you go for though.
02-23-2015, 02:39 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
Remember those old hand-held incandescent trouble lights...the ones with the stamped-steel-and-flash-plated guard/reflectors? Well, I had one of those for years. I'm not sure what material the plating was, but it had the appearance of matt aluminum...a kind of light grey color. I hated that light because I was constantly burning myself on the outside of that reflector. One day, a friend happened to be there when I earned myself a new welt from the light. He grabbed a spray bomb of flat black header paint off of the shelf and shot a thin coat of it on the outside of the guard/reflector...and I never burned myself on that light again. The guard/reflector had gone from scalding hot to merely quite warm. What could possibly have changed so much? The only change was that my friend had increased the emissivity of the outer surface by turning it flat black instead of a matt light grey. The guard/reflector was no longer retaining anywhere near the amount of heat that it had been because the outer surface was emitting so much more efficiently...in spite of the fact that there was a 1 bar atmosphere present in my garage the whole time, and in spite of the fact that there was no change in the airflow around the guard/reflector. That experience really brought home the effect to me. The sudden absence of physical pain and damage will tend do that for you...
It's interesting to compare temperatures recorded by an IR thermometer or camera to temperatures measured with an ordinary contact thermometer. With anodized aluminum, the object will feel cooler to the touch but appear much hotter in IR. That's what you would have noticed with your work light when you painted it black.
It really goes to show how IR thermometers are not as foolproof as they seem at first. Emissivity can't be judged by visual appearance.
02-23-2015, 02:55 PM
#66
Nordschleife Master
I can't speak for the 997, but on a 991GT3 with iron rotors, there is no appreciable brake fade or rotor heat soak either. 4 hard track days and they hold up like a champ.
While not necessarily relevant to the 991, some data points in the November 2014 Panorama Magazine:
https://www.pca.org/panorama/edition...-november-2014
https://www.pca.org/panorama/edition...-november-2014
02-23-2015, 03:33 PM
#67
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Hi guys, some-time lurker, first-time poster here. I had the same debate with myself re ceramic brakes on a GTS cab and drove one car with and one without back-to-back on the test tracks at Porsche Centre Silverstone, UK. The stopping didn't feel that different (maybe a little less effort was required with the ceramics), but the difference in the car's 'feel' due to the reduced unsprung weight was considerable. Basically, the car with ceramics felt like it was wearing really expensive running shoes - lighter on its feet and quicker to respond to inputs - so the ceramics were what I went for. I'm a street driver, though, who will track the car occasionally or possibly never.
And there is also an additional question for the GTS re. rotating mass, in that centrelock wheels have less rotating mass than standard ones. Five bolts rotating away from the centre of mass causes more of a rotational effect than one big bolt right in the middle.
I reckon you'll love the car whichever option you go for though.
And there is also an additional question for the GTS re. rotating mass, in that centrelock wheels have less rotating mass than standard ones. Five bolts rotating away from the centre of mass causes more of a rotational effect than one big bolt right in the middle.
I reckon you'll love the car whichever option you go for though.
Thanks Magic rat I went for the ceramics and having my car delivered on Monday!
going to silverstone myself on wednesday for a test drive....
Have you got your GTS ? if so do you like?
02-23-2015, 06:06 PM
#69
The GTS is a mind-blowing car. Different from the S in subtle ways (the reason I got so acquainted with Silverstone was they had GTSs to drive in and compare and showrooms didn't). Would be interested in your thoughts post-Wednesday, and good call on the brakes
02-23-2015, 07:24 PM
#70
Drifting
02-23-2015, 08:11 PM
#71
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Monday? I'm jealous! Mine's a March build for April delivery. I'm pretty sure I'll like it though as I've earned my Silverstone loyalty card this year (they don't do them. I did ask). Went there for back-to-back testing of brakes, as well as PDCC vs not, and 2 vs 4wd. One was my freebie, the others I paid for. What can I say - I wanted to get it right!
The GTS is a mind-blowing car. Different from the S in subtle ways (the reason I got so acquainted with Silverstone was they had GTSs to drive in and compare and showrooms didn't). Would be interested in your thoughts post-Wednesday, and good call on the brakes
The GTS is a mind-blowing car. Different from the S in subtle ways (the reason I got so acquainted with Silverstone was they had GTSs to drive in and compare and showrooms didn't). Would be interested in your thoughts post-Wednesday, and good call on the brakes
Good to hear how good it is, can't wait!
02-24-2015, 06:14 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
Monday? I'm jealous! Mine's a March build for April delivery. I'm pretty sure I'll like it though as I've earned my Silverstone loyalty card this year (they don't do them. I did ask). Went there for back-to-back testing of brakes, as well as PDCC vs not, and 2 vs 4wd. One was my freebie, the others I paid for. What can I say - I wanted to get it right!
The GTS is a mind-blowing car. Different from the S in subtle ways (the reason I got so acquainted with Silverstone was they had GTSs to drive in and compare and showrooms didn't). Would be interested in your thoughts post-Wednesday, and good call on the brakes
The GTS is a mind-blowing car. Different from the S in subtle ways (the reason I got so acquainted with Silverstone was they had GTSs to drive in and compare and showrooms didn't). Would be interested in your thoughts post-Wednesday, and good call on the brakes
02-25-2015, 03:21 PM
#75
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Monday? I'm jealous! Mine's a March build for April delivery. I'm pretty sure I'll like it though as I've earned my Silverstone loyalty card this year (they don't do them. I did ask). Went there for back-to-back testing of brakes, as well as PDCC vs not, and 2 vs 4wd. One was my freebie, the others I paid for. What can I say - I wanted to get it right!
The GTS is a mind-blowing car. Different from the S in subtle ways (the reason I got so acquainted with Silverstone was they had GTSs to drive in and compare and showrooms didn't). Would be interested in your thoughts post-Wednesday, and good call on the brakes
The GTS is a mind-blowing car. Different from the S in subtle ways (the reason I got so acquainted with Silverstone was they had GTSs to drive in and compare and showrooms didn't). Would be interested in your thoughts post-Wednesday, and good call on the brakes