MJones

...............................TOTAL

Dec 13 ........ 0
Jan 14 ........ 118
Feb 14........ .. 21........... 139 [21 sold (punched) before Stop Sale]
Mar 14............0.............139 [Stop Sale]
April 14 NONE
May 14 NONE
June 14 NONE
July 14........... 33.......177 YTD
Aug 14.......... 206......379 YTD
Sept 14............51......430 YTD

timothymoffat

Is this US only or US and Canada?

MJones

I believe US only...

Macca

430 out of 785 units MY2014 produced go to NA!! that's 55% of total production and will likely be closer to 465/60% by the time MY2015 units arrive and get registered by the end of Oct.

UK has 104 units registed by time of stop sale and a further 40 or so delivered/registered since June to complete MY2014 deliveries.

that leaves around 200 MY2014 units for Europe and rest of world.

Not sure that sound right.....

Z356

Macca:

From your sources in Europe, do you have a sense how many MY2015 991 gt3's were allocated to ROW, especially Europe, since PAG recently started handing them out? My gut feeling is the US is getting the lion's share of these 'new' '15 allocations. But is it because demand for the 991 gt3 in Europe (and Germany in particular) is below PAG's original expectations? Is the 991 gt3 PRESENTLY perceived differently in other markets of the world? I get a sense from the Rennteam forum, which is mostly made up of Europeans, that 'enthusiasm' in the 991 gt3 is not at the same level in Europe as it is here - as evidence by Rennlist 'I-got-my-allocation' posts & recent auction results of PCNA's buybacks by P-dealers! Personally, I would like to see MY2015 allocations & sales numbers in Europe & ROW to get a 'weighted' sense of worldwide demand for the 991 gt3 at this moment in time, after the bad publicity suffered from the 'Stop Sale'! I just want to make sure our current 'exuberance' in the US (to paraphrase Alan Greenspan) is not 'irrational', thus properly tethered to the reality of what is happening in ALL other Porsche markets for this model!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carrmel

.

Macca

Eduardo

Interesting question but as you know basically impossible to answer with absolutes. So I will revert to my "learned opinion" ha ha!

When the GT3 Action Group was created we attracted over 120 individual members who had orders. Suffice to say approximately 60% of these were from the USA.

I have no data on ROW deliveries other than Australia, New Zealand and the UK. I could probably hazard a pretty accurate guess for Singapore, Malayasia, Hong Kong, UAE, Brunei and South Africa too. In the UK alone 104 units were registered officially on the land transport system prior to stop sale.

I am in regular contact with a dozen Europeans with the car. Autogespot.com has over 300 photographic "sightings" - 95% of them in Europe but many postings are repeat sightings. I would hesitate to say however that around 100 unique cars in Europe are documents on this sight - there has been a huge acceleration in the last 6 weeks including 3-4 PTS cars as you well know! It is possible a handful of these 150 european cars are MY2015 model as customers in Europe would have been receiving these over the last week or 10 days.

The media stated (quoting PAG) 785 units produced prior to stop sale (well we actually know they continued to manufacture cars sans engine right through March and April as well obviously intent to finish their initial production forecast).

We know anecdotally from talking with 2-3 Chinese customers on the GT3 Worldwide Action Group database that very few GT3 were ordered new in China. Contrary to earlier speculation on this board and elsewhere the Chinese don't seem much interested in beetle shaped sports cars and a measure of prestige there is a Cayenne or Panamera Turbo - also much better suited to their infrastructure...

So that brings us back to the facts and the speculation. It seems fact that 430 MY2014 GT3 have been registered in USA, 145 approx to date in UK and we have established through photographic documentation that approx 150 registered examples exist in Europe at large. That is 725 units through the powers of reasonable speculation. Now I know for sure there are over 60 units of MY2015 in all of the smaller countries I mentioned above not to mention add India, South America, Canada, Indonesia and Russia. Infact we have documented on our database approx 20 for these smaller countries.

So my point is this. was the 785 units ever accurate or just a number thrown out there to appease journalists? Did the factory continue to produce cars without engines after May when the replacement engines started rolling off the line?

If the USA and UK official registration information posted here is correct and the photos in Europe don't lie - then there are more like 1000 MY2014 cars in existence. It must be because We have already exhausted the 785 units in analysis above without assuming there are more in Europe than the 150 photographed and also leaving out some large emerging nations...

In response to your second question its really hard to know. We operate on a boas platform - its English speaking, US centric and to be honest the USA were heavily delayed in MY2014 deliveries before the stop sale meaning only 30% of what has now been delivered was delivered before the stop sale. Europe and the UK undoubtedly had 2.5x as many cars in customers hands at the time of the stop sale. We are this seeing an unprecedented amount of US enthusiasm because if you look at the figures in the last 6 weeks the population of 991 GT3 driven in America has trippled!

In teh UK, NZ, Australia demand for the 991 GT3 has outstripped supply. The UK is seeing premiums of up to $30K USD for resale cars as you may have read on Pistonheads (iunfact its all I read over there lately). They think the prices could send up over 150K GBP for a used example soon as there are no new allocations (still around 90 cars to be delivered but these are all spoken for).

Much of the developing world have not heard of the 991 GT3 nor do they care. you cant eat it and it doesn't provide long term shelter!

That leaves us Europe. It is true there are used cars available at MSRP or slightly lower (dependant on mileage) in Germany. This does not seem to be the case in other Euro countries infact a few also have large used premiums like USA and UK. the racers with 991 GT3 that I know talk of multiple 991 GT3 attendance (as many as 7 cars) at events at The Ring etc. The cars are all being praised for their handling and speed on track and processes is growing as they take on Speciale and 650S at tracks around Europe. Sabines company RSR Nurburgring have bought one and I can name at least 5 other German driver "schools" that have one. Some of the Europeans such as iGirl, PHilgv and freetrader have done alot of mileage in a short time 6000-12000 miles and in some cases as many as 25 track days already. they all love the car.

I suspect the German market was very tough on Porsche for this mistake and a number of cars were returned and have now found themselves on the market. the weather window is short there and many were disgruntled their car would nit receive the engine until too late in teh track season. Many quit their order and some took MY2015 allocations for next season.

So its hard to say. Right now the UK and USA forums (as with most english speaking ones) are bubbling over with enthusiasm - the UK partly because of scarcity and the USA partly because so many new owners have "just arrived" at the party.

One thing i believe is true in what you say. I think there are by far more MY2015 allocations in North America than anywhere else in the world. There are less than 80 in the UK and in Europe I believe very few too (probably as there are still used returned cars n the lots for sale and its heading into winter already!!!).

This is my opinion and these are my thoughts :-)

rockitman

Well it's about time ROW takes a back seat to US with regard to Porsche allocations...

Macca

ROW has generally taken back seat to USA for Porsche production allocations since Ferry Porsche and his father signed a distribution agreement for NA with Max Hoffman LOL!

Z356

The good old days...."In the fall of 1950, Hoffman took delivery of two 1.1-liter coupes and put them on display at his 430 Park Avenue showroom in New York City. While the 356 had only 44 horsepower and cost as much as a Cadillac convertible, he thought this little Porsche deserved a chance. His faith in Porsche was justified. He imported 32 cars in 1951, and by 1954 he was marketing 11 Porsches a week, or 30 percent of Porsche's production. At its peak, the United States would absorb up to 70 percent of Porsche's yearly production."

http://press.porsche.com/news/60_Yea...erformance.php

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

PS Macca: Thank you for the excellent response to my query above!

.

Macca

My pleasure Eduardo. Compared to the effort and passion you frequently put into many of your posts on here its the very least I can do mate!

sccchiii

When all production is built and delivered by end of first quarter of next year there will be well over 1000 units delivered in U.S....by how much I cannot tell you but that is what is scheduled in allocation system, already built but not delivered yet, and already delivered cars.

BenDiem

^^^ Great thread Gents. I enjoy your informative posts.

Thanks for the read!

Cheers/BB

shapiroeric

Is that Max Hoffman as in Hoffman auto group?.....funny as I called them to buy a car and the salesman laughed me off and said they were sold out and I wouldn't find one anywhere.....later that day got an allocation in Jersey....

hfm

So does this mean 785+ for MY 2014 and unspecified number of MY 2015? According to Wiki, this is about a third to one half of mark one production for 996 or 997 productions. But, it doesn't account for the number of MY 2015 sold.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_GT3#991_GT3

Dan (thinks low production numbers bodes well for future valuation)

hfm

Looking at this again, I'm thinking the 785+ were for orders for the previous year resulting in 785+ MY 2014 sales. And, this is production numbers for MY 2015.

If correct, MY 2014 and MY 2015 numbers of 785+ and 430 total approximately 1,215+ for mark one 991 GT3. That's still about one half the numbers of mark one GT3s for 996 or 997.

Dan (still thinks our GT3 will be pretty rare)