Driving Advice? Descending in a RWD on loose.
08-26-2016, 12:45 PM
#1
Race Car
Thread Starter
Driving Advice? Descending in a RWD on loose.
Hello,
I can't help but get squeamish on a steep gravel, icy or muddy descent.
...And I'd like to go faster while doing so.
What are some good rules of thumb for what TO DO & what NOT TO DO in my rwd sportscar while in the slippery hills?
Thanks!
Noah
I can't help but get squeamish on a steep gravel, icy or muddy descent.
...And I'd like to go faster while doing so.
What are some good rules of thumb for what TO DO & what NOT TO DO in my rwd sportscar while in the slippery hills?
Thanks!
Noah
08-26-2016, 01:06 PM
#3
Race Car
Thread Starter
Damn, you must be smart in order to cram that into one line of text brother.
Don't really want to crash. Taking baby steps. The most confidence I've been able to get is left foot braking, to load the steer axle and control the speed, but I don't know if that's "recommended" it just makes the most sense to me at this point... but I'm not very comfortable.
The last rally we did had muddy descents & I found I had to stay on the throttle or else the car kicked sideways... but some times it was in fourth gear -which felt a bit too fast at times- and... everything worked out (we didn't crash) but it got me thinking about how to gain better control of the speed and thats when I started experimenting with LFB.
Don't really want to crash. Taking baby steps. The most confidence I've been able to get is left foot braking, to load the steer axle and control the speed, but I don't know if that's "recommended" it just makes the most sense to me at this point... but I'm not very comfortable.
The last rally we did had muddy descents & I found I had to stay on the throttle or else the car kicked sideways... but some times it was in fourth gear -which felt a bit too fast at times- and... everything worked out (we didn't crash) but it got me thinking about how to gain better control of the speed and thats when I started experimenting with LFB.
08-26-2016, 01:19 PM
#4
Wilson is an 88 right? thought about retro fitting the early Boxster ABS? you would need the rest of the ABS gear from an 87-89, but it may help you. I know, i know, driving aids, but it could be really helpful for your confidence. Put a switch on it so you can turn it off when you don't want it.
My S2 does the same thing on Decel (aka engine braking) in the snow, but only in 1st/2nd. I usually keep just a little of throttle in it to keep her happy while left foot braking to keep it in check. Mind you this is hoonery in a ski area parking lot as i'm not quite brave enough to take the car on a rally adventure. I feel like you've got the right idea about watching the balance of the car and adjusting via axle loading.
My S2 does the same thing on Decel (aka engine braking) in the snow, but only in 1st/2nd. I usually keep just a little of throttle in it to keep her happy while left foot braking to keep it in check. Mind you this is hoonery in a ski area parking lot as i'm not quite brave enough to take the car on a rally adventure. I feel like you've got the right idea about watching the balance of the car and adjusting via axle loading.
08-26-2016, 07:56 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Raise the front suspension and lower the rear.
The instability is a result of the low front roll centre and the high rear roll centre.
Under power the rear squats which lowers the rear roll centre and hides the problem but on a descent the problem reappears.
Cheers,
Mike
The instability is a result of the low front roll centre and the high rear roll centre.
Under power the rear squats which lowers the rear roll centre and hides the problem but on a descent the problem reappears.
Cheers,
Mike
08-26-2016, 11:10 PM
#7
Race Car
Thread Starter
Wilson is an 88 right? thought about retro fitting the early Boxster ABS? you would need the rest of the ABS gear from an 87-89, but it may help you. I know, i know, driving aids, but it could be really helpful for your confidence. Put a switch on it so you can turn it off when you don't want it.
My S2 does the same thing on Decel (aka engine braking) in the snow, but only in 1st/2nd. I usually keep just a little of throttle in it to keep her happy while left foot braking to keep it in check. Mind you this is hoonery in a ski area parking lot as i'm not quite brave enough to take the car on a rally adventure. I feel like you've got the right idea about watching the balance of the car and adjusting via axle loading.
My S2 does the same thing on Decel (aka engine braking) in the snow, but only in 1st/2nd. I usually keep just a little of throttle in it to keep her happy while left foot braking to keep it in check. Mind you this is hoonery in a ski area parking lot as i'm not quite brave enough to take the car on a rally adventure. I feel like you've got the right idea about watching the balance of the car and adjusting via axle loading.
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08-26-2016, 11:57 PM
#8
Race Car
Thread Starter
Raise the front suspension and lower the rear.
The instability is a result of the low front roll centre and the high rear roll centre.
Under power the rear squats which lowers the rear roll centre and hides the problem but on a descent the problem reappears.
Cheers,
Mike
The instability is a result of the low front roll centre and the high rear roll centre.
Under power the rear squats which lowers the rear roll centre and hides the problem but on a descent the problem reappears.
Cheers,
Mike
This is what I found: http://thecartech.com/subjects/auto_...oll_Center.htm
This article discusses CORNERING. My problem isn't during cornering... just descending down a straight hill.
08-27-2016, 12:35 AM
#9
Get some wings))
What Mike said....soft in the butt and don't even think of touching the brakes. My car reaches level at an eighth of a tank.
Be in the gear that allows deceleration AND acceleration so you can match wheel speed with your velocity.
What Mike said....soft in the butt and don't even think of touching the brakes. My car reaches level at an eighth of a tank.
Be in the gear that allows deceleration AND acceleration so you can match wheel speed with your velocity.
08-27-2016, 03:55 AM
#10
Porsche made a prototype rear (VW) engine 4X4 944 this would be handy on the Loose!
R
08-27-2016, 04:51 AM
#12
Instructor
Use a lower gear. Keep the wheels turning. Don't block the wheels.
Start slowly on the decent. and try to accelerate down. The car will do that anyway. That's why You have to start slow ;-)
If you are going too fast. Try braking, But very gently. Still too fast, scrub some speed off, by going sideways. No, you won't roll over trust me ;-)
So when you come to a downhill. Slam the brakes before the top. If you do it too late, you will nosedive down the hill. If you want airtime, keep a steady trottle over the top.
On jumps:
If you think the road is turning on the other side of the jump/hill. You can flick the car going over the top. Just a little. That will make the car easier to turn, when landing.
On really fast jumps/downhill don't do it. Unless you have a Finnish passport.
Look at some Rallycross and 1000 lakes rally videos.
Or maybe this one. http://www.redbull.com/en/motorsport...pohja-kamaz-vw
Have fun. Regards Per
Start slowly on the decent. and try to accelerate down. The car will do that anyway. That's why You have to start slow ;-)
If you are going too fast. Try braking, But very gently. Still too fast, scrub some speed off, by going sideways. No, you won't roll over trust me ;-)
So when you come to a downhill. Slam the brakes before the top. If you do it too late, you will nosedive down the hill. If you want airtime, keep a steady trottle over the top.
On jumps:
If you think the road is turning on the other side of the jump/hill. You can flick the car going over the top. Just a little. That will make the car easier to turn, when landing.
On really fast jumps/downhill don't do it. Unless you have a Finnish passport.
Look at some Rallycross and 1000 lakes rally videos.
Or maybe this one. http://www.redbull.com/en/motorsport...pohja-kamaz-vw
Have fun. Regards Per
08-27-2016, 08:08 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Thank you for your input Mike. Honestly I know very little about suspension... so I searched online for "roll centre".
This is what I found: http://thecartech.com/subjects/auto_...oll_Center.htm
This article discusses CORNERING. My problem isn't during cornering... just descending down a straight hill.
This is what I found: http://thecartech.com/subjects/auto_...oll_Center.htm
This article discusses CORNERING. My problem isn't during cornering... just descending down a straight hill.
Roll centre affects straight line stability as well. Roll centre instantaneously responds to any lateral force. Roll centre has a lot to do with the "feel" of a car even in a straight line.
Let me put it another way: if you're "just" decending down a "straight" hill and there are ZERO lateral forces, then the squeamish feeling has nothing to do with the car, it must all be in your head!
(and it also means you can take your hands off the steering wheel, right?)
Clearly this is not the case, so...
Something else you can try is moving more weight up front.
Cheers,
Mike
