Notices

S. CA Timing belt Party!

 
Old 09-24-2003, 05:16 AM
  #31  
Legoland951
Super User
 
Legoland951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Posts: 3,924
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Gee I don't check the board for a while and all this is going on.... The cam tower gasket can be replaced without the removal of the timing belt cover or any of the belts. It is very simple and only takes me about 30 minutes. It will take longer as I would also replace the front and rear cam seals along with the big o ring seal. This will require the removal of the cam pulley and its no easy task. A powerful impact with a snap on cheesehead socket will work most of the time. I have seen one that was loctited in the cam and broke the bolt in the cam. I have spare cams but can't bring everything for every year. I have a 2 car garage but its filled with 2 cars and an unbelievable amount of parts. I only play with 8v cars and will not use someone's car as an experimenal project. I am also not a factory trained mechanic and learned what I know from repetition so don't kill me if I can't recite the factory torque specs or use "factory methods" of repair. Anyone should tension their own belt unless someone wants to provide the special tool. I tension by feel and have done that job over 50 times without premature failure or wear on the components these belts drive. After the attacks on danno, I need to put in my disclaimer The timing belts are easy unless something like the tensioner stud breaks inside the block like what happened to one of my cars. I had to remove the engine and replace the block after I broke 2 carbide ez out bits in the broken bolt. You will have to determine where you want to stop in terms of seals. It is more work and if the back cover has to be taken off, water pump should be replaced. All this takes time where the timing belt, balance belt and rollers/tensioners can be done in 2-3 hours while the seals and water pump will take 3-4 hours more just because things like the water pump studs breaking or something else won't cooperate. I would recommend doing the belts/rollers first because of the potential damage in case of failure.

Eventually, I believe in engine removal to replace all the seals including clutch and head gasket all at the same time because it will take you way less time to do everything when the engine is out and all at once rather than to do it one at a time. I normally will have another good running engine completely resealed already so it will be a simple replacement. I know it sounds extreme but if you intend to keep your car for a long time, its worth it since many of the gaskets on the cars are not changed in 10 or even in some cases 20 years.
Legoland951 is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 09:34 AM
  #32  
kjp-924s
In the Sink
Rennlist Member

 
kjp-924s's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago,IL (missing San Diego...)
Posts: 10,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Legoland,

OK, so your shortcut on the cam tower gasket must be...

- taking off the upper timing cover, distributor cap/rotor for clearance
- loosening the fuel rail bolts
- removing the cam tower bolts
- lifting off the cam tower just enough to slip out the seal from the side

Is that about correct?

Does this gasket require any cleaning of the mating surfaces? Can the old gasket break up or crumble on removal? Do you use any kind of sealant when re-installing the new gasket?

In the case of my car, the front seals were changed in 2001. I need to check my receipts to make sure they did the camshaft seal. I will probably take off the covers this weekend to check for other leaks.

I don't think my rear cam housing seal was changed. So I would change this one.

I have a light leak onto the exhaust manifold, so you can smell it when you run the car after letting it sit for a while.

-Kevin

PS - Do you use any kind of special tool (kind of like a spark plug wire remover) to pull out the fuel injectors (from the block, not the rail) without rocking them back and forth? I don't like the Haynes manual technique of pulling the injectors off 4 at a time using the fuel rail as the tool (by leaving it connected to the rail during removal).

Last edited by kjp-924s; 09-24-2003 at 10:02 AM.
kjp-924s is online now  
Old 09-24-2003, 09:59 AM
  #33  
kjp-924s
In the Sink
Rennlist Member

 
kjp-924s's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago,IL (missing San Diego...)
Posts: 10,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally posted by Legoland951
After the attacks on danno, I need to put in my disclaimer
Hopefully there's a good samaritan law associated with car repair! In other words, if you're offering advice, or working for <insert beverage of choice>, then YMMV on how simple the repair turns out to be!

Even spark plug removal can become a nightmare. I remember walking down the driveway and seeing my father ready to "blow a gasket" because he was trying to change a seized oil filter on a Renault Alliance, and even the "screwdriver trick" wasn't working. He thought he was totally screwed.

It would help to have someone around with a lot of "just in case" parts or tools.

OK, here's another idea of something "safe(r)" that might be done during the party - gear oil changes. The theory here being that you soak the drain/fill plugs in pb blaster while doing other things (or letting the car cool off). Then if you can remove both plugs, you're home free. The only problem is that some people like to put synthetic in here, in place of the original OEM GL4 gear oil. And the only way I have found that you can get original GL4 gear oil is to buy it in a 5 gallon bucket - enough for ~5 changes, I think, so maybe we could split a bucket.

-Kevin
kjp-924s is online now  
Old 09-24-2003, 11:48 AM
  #34  
Legoland951
Super User
 
Legoland951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Posts: 3,924
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I can get the plug out even if its stripped in 5 min. Get the redline oil. Its well worth it. I remove the cam tower by sliding the timing belt off the pulley. There is no way to "slide" the gasket out from under the cam tower due to the lifters and the valves themselves and I wouldn't attempt it since I had to scrape off the gasket many times. Some times, it takes me longer to clean the surfaces of the cam tower and the cylinder head more than the rest of the job. Since the cam tower assembly is out, you will want to change the rest of the seals since its easy to get to and parts are not too expensive. I normally do this when I change the head gasket and send out the head to the machine shop to resurface the head, do a 3 angle valve job, and change the valve seals. You will want to change the oil since there are always stuff falling down into the valve train and down the oil passages into the pan.
Legoland951 is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 12:02 PM
  #35  
Legoland951
Super User
 
Legoland951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Posts: 3,924
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

BTW, I believe there should a good samaritan law but you know how the old saying goes: no good deed ever goes unpunished. I have helped people in the past and showed up late where friends call me a flake etc or when things don't turn out according to plan, I get blamed. I do see their point of view but still does not give me incentive to help in the future. Its like the one guy who criticized Danno's "textbook" advice in the other thread. It gives him no motivation to post further advice to all the other people who may desperately need that one advice he is an expert in. This is the reason I am hesistant to do somethings but Julie, though she has been screwed over for helping people and been shafted for standing up for what she believes is right, still remains unjaded and wants to do this. I will bring my 89 turbo to do some stuff to it and offer hints to people who want to work on their own cars and afraid they will get stuck doing it themselves by screwing something up. I got spare parts too so if someone breaks a bolt in a cam, I can bring another one though I don't know what years are different. I guess we can call it 944 boot camp I am no tuner, have no idea how to tune a car and hate to do internal engine work other than sending the head out to the machine shop. I do know how to replace parts and get the car to run as I used to start 100s of cars from the auctions in the past with no keys and sabotage from other bidders who did not get the car. Chances are if you have a car that won't start, I can figure out what the problem is. With that said, lets set a date and do this.

Last edited by Legoland951; 09-24-2003 at 01:30 PM.
Legoland951 is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 12:39 PM
  #36  
kjp-924s
In the Sink
Rennlist Member

 
kjp-924s's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago,IL (missing San Diego...)
Posts: 10,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally posted by Legoland951
I can get the plug out even if its stripped in 5 min. Get the redline oil. Its well worth it. I remove the cam tower by sliding the timing belt off the pulley. There is no way to "slide" the gasket out from under the cam tower due to the lifters and the valves themselves and I wouldn't attempt it since I had to scrape off the gasket many times. Some times, it takes me longer to clean the surfaces of the cam tower and the cylinder head more than the rest of the job. Since the cam tower assembly is out, you will want to change the rest of the seals since its easy to get to and parts are not too expensive. I normally do this when I change the head gasket and send out the head to the machine shop to resurface the head, do a 3 angle valve job, and change the valve seals. You will want to change the oil since there are always stuff falling down into the valve train and down the oil passages into the pan.
OK, so you are essentially doing the clarks garage procedure, so the timing belt should be marked to make sure you don't re-install everything off by one tooth.

I would probably skip the head-gasket and cylinder head removal until I do a full engine rebuild. But I will think a little more about doing the cam gear removal to do those seals while I have everything apart.

Not too sure about the synthetic. I seem to have a small gear oil leak (I found the gear oil very low once) and I am happy with how it shifts now, so I would just like to keep the status-quo.

Kevin
kjp-924s is online now  
Old 09-24-2003, 03:16 PM
  #37  
SoCal Driver
Super User
 
SoCal Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Costa Mesa, California
Posts: 3,781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I just cringe when anyone trys to use paint marks on the belts and pulleys.

Don't trust this. Always check the flywheel mark and the cam pulley mark. Use any remaining paint marks only as a cross check.

A new belt is always better than an old belt even if hand tensioned.

Yes this would be a boot camp week end. Looking forward to it.
SoCal Driver is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 03:36 PM
  #38  
kjp-924s
In the Sink
Rennlist Member

 
kjp-924s's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago,IL (missing San Diego...)
Posts: 10,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

One time, I used white-out to mark the belts and rollers. Before we re-installed the belts, by father thought he'd wipe everything down. And presto! No more marks.

I would rather have them there and convince myself with the other timing marks that everything is OK, than to be brave and take the belts off without marking everything. I agree that it's probably very valuable to know how to do it without making any marks just in case.

-Kevin
kjp-924s is online now  
Old 09-24-2003, 03:42 PM
  #39  
Legoland951
Super User
 
Legoland951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Posts: 3,924
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I don't use the marking method and use the flywheel mark, pulley mark, and physically stick a tube in #1 cylinder to make sure its on. This way, I won't have to put the belt 1 tooth off if the last guy did that.
Legoland951 is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 04:59 PM
  #40  
Sasha
User
 
Sasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Has the date been set yet?
Sasha is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 05:35 PM
  #41  
Jonas Goldsmith
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally posted by Sasha
Has the date been set yet?
Not yet, we need to find out what dates are good for the people hosting the event and the people who know what they are doing? Personally i am clueless and have no tools... all i have is a little money for pizza and a car... so, we need to get that all straightened out first... I really wanna watch someone do my belts so i can learn how to do this!!!
Jonas Goldsmith is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 06:04 PM
  #42  
bearone
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

i wish i lived a little closer, too bad i can't box it up and take it as carry on luggage.
bearone is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 06:45 PM
  #43  
SoCal Driver
Super User
 
SoCal Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Costa Mesa, California
Posts: 3,781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally posted by bearone
i wish i lived a little closer, too bad i can't box it up and take it as carry on luggage.
Don't you have a flyfree deal with one of the airlines?

Come on out to OC air port and we'll make a week end of it!
SoCal Driver is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 07:30 PM
  #44  
bearone
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

yes indeedy, get there about 6a. let me know which weekend. Where's oc airport?
bearone is offline  
Old 09-24-2003, 08:12 PM
  #45  
esanmiguel
User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Santa Ana, CA
Posts: 913
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

If you all agree to have it here at my house, I will post soon what weekends I am available..
esanmiguel is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: