I have a 4s with the extended battery. When I do a full charge to 100% for a long trip- battery is now charging to only 253 miles.
4500 miles on the car.

 

The miles reported by the car are an estimate based on en exponentially decaying moving average of your consumption. It is bound to change with your driving style, conditions (i.e. temperature and rain/snow), tires, etc. This is true for any car btw, not just electrics.

On a recent trip in dry weather, 55mph avg speed at 48F (9C), my turbo S with 21" mission E got consumption of ~38KWH/100mi, which puts the battery range at 220miles. The 94KWH battery has user-accessible 84KWH. 84/38=2.21 * 100mi = 221 miles)

 

I understand that expected range will vary on driving conditions and temperature and other factors. All I’m asking is if I have a 270 capacity and it only charges to 253- is that acceptable after 4900 miles?

The actual range may vary once I start driving and I may get more than 253 but it’s not charging to what the hypothetical full charge is.

 

I think your definition of “full” isn’t the way the car does it. “Full” is 83.7kwh of energy stored and this is your 100%. Based on your recent driving history, this may translate to 200mi or 300mi and would be different for every car.

now, the car shows you this estimate to give you a better idea of how far you’d probably get, but it is just an estimate.

I don’t think there is a way from inside the vehicle to determine exactly how much energy you have stored. I’ve heard of an ability of the dealer to pull the battery health statistics for you if you are worried - it will tell you something like 95% usable capacity remaining.

 

If I buy the extended battery and porsche says my “range” is 270 and yet I only get 253 after a night of charging- I’m trying to figure out if that is normal or if something is going on.

I fully understand that once I start driving the actual mileage may vary depending on conditions but if my theoritical capacity is 270- why am I not charging up to 270?


This is my 4th ev. Been driving electric cars since 2012 so im not new to this.

 

FWIW, EPA range for battery plus 4S is 227 mi. The 270 you are quoting is AMCI which is just an independent research firm, not Porsche.

Your 253 is likely perfectly normal depending on your driving style and climate. My car has indicated as low as 230 and as high as 320 depending on drive mode and climate.

 

I'm not sure if other EVs do this differently so maybe you have different expectation but in my mind, coming from ICE vehicles, this makes perfect sense.

When you purchase a gas car, you buy say a 20gallon tank. There is an estimate of range you can calculate based on say estimated consumption of 20mpg giving you 400miles estimated range. But you did not buy a 400mile range car. You bought a 20-gallon gas tank.

Same thing here - you buy a 83.7KWH capacity. That translates to different range estimates based on your avg consumption. The 250miles number comes based on estimates of some style of driving and conditions, usually done in a standardized test (e.g. EPA). In EPA, my taycan is rated for 201miles. on AMCI it is 278miles and on the WLTP cycle (UK), it is rated at 25.6-24.3 KWh per 100km ( ~215miles of range).

What is constant though is the 83.7kwh capacity. I'd be worried if I get less (degraded battery performance).

 

that level of range is NOT what porsche claims it is, if you are achieving that sort of range be happy.
on perfect days for driving and not exceeding 70+ MPH on mostly flat roads I rarely exceed 260 miles per a full charge

 

I’m sorry I started this thread. This is not a complicated discussion. According to porsche- when you charge the car fully you should get 272 miles with the extended battery, which I have. See screen shot from porsche.com





Now the actual range will depend on temperature, driving conditions, etc etc etc.

I have close to 5k miles on the car. When I charge the car fully the “tank” should be full and should say 270 or miles. Mine says 253.

if I drive I may get 253, I might get 273, I might get 200, I might get 300. All of this depends on a number of factor.

I just wanna know if my battery is damaged and not charging fully or if this is normal.

No need to respond. The above was a rhetorical question. I’ll discuss with my GM.

 

I understand you feel frustrated with this thread, but I think it is important to anyone else who might stumble on a similar question to understand what' going on as well.

We are not disputing your observed number of 253 miles in the car's reported charge level. And to be clear, this is the number you'd see in the lower center screen as well as the "fuel" gauge in the instrument cluster. Tapping on this number in the lower-center screen would also show you 100% charge. All of these presentations are more friendly ways to show that your car has 83.7kwh of energy stored.

If you now start to drive like a maniac in -20 weather, your car will not get this range (which i know isn't what you're confused about). The point we're trying to make is that if you were to go and charge your car to 100% again, the car will not show that this is equivalent to 253miles anymore. It will show a lower number, say 203miles. That doesn't mean your battery has less energy stored - just that the car now calculates a lower range for your specific conditions.

In some other cars, this is a static calculation - 80KWH always shows as 350miles. period. This is very confusing to me since it means squat. I may or may not get even half of that range. The Taycan is trying to give you a better approximation of how far you'd go, and is doing it based on the principle of "past performance predicts future performance". THis happens to work better in practice and leads to people being less worried about just how far you may be able to go given a full charge.

As I mentioned in my first reply, the car has no indication of battery health to show to you. This information seems to be available from your dealer if you request for it at service time, but it is also not quite exact as honestly the science is just not there yet to give a precise accurate number for battery health. It can be useful to spot a trend though.

The precise value of battery health that the dealer reports to you is also useful if you want to make a warranty claim. They have limits in the battery warranty for what percentage health warrants a battery replacement. see page 7 here: https://files.porsche.com/filestore/...nty-Manual.pdf

 

This is the standard way that most EVs display range. My Tesla Model S was the only one that did what you are expecting - always show more or less the same starting range when I charged it. It's a really silly way of doing it, since if the weather was cold the range would immediately drop like a stone. Just like you put 15 gallons in a 15-gallon tank, you put 84 kWh in a battery with usable capacity of 84 kWh. Neither a fuel tank, nor a battery have a capacity measured in miles.

When we charged my wife's Turbo in the summer, it would sometimes show range of close to 500 km. Now that it's -10 celsius, it shows more like 360 km. I don't see why anyone would want the car to show an unrealistically optimistic range.

 

Because the car doesn’t tell me that I’ve charged to 84kWHz. It tells me that with the number. 272. Again this discussion is way more complicated than it needs to be.

 

The car tells you it's charged to 100%, or whatever you've set it to in the charging profile, which is the percentage of the available battery capacity, denominated in kWh, not miles. The car also displays an estimated range in miles. These two things aren't contradictory. My 911 has a fuel gauge indicating empty all the way to full. It also shows me an estimate of how far I can drive until the fuel tank is empty, and that estimate is different depending on how I've been driving.

 

when you charge to 100% how do you that is the true 100% or a battery that has degraded 15% and now it thinks the new 85% of capacity left is 100%.

 

The number it shows is based on how and in what conditions you've been driving. The EPA range number was based on one test procedure and set of conditions, the AMCI test was based in another set of conditions, and the number your car is showing is based on how and where you've been driving. Hypermile the car, and it'll show a bigger number. Drive aggressively and it'll show a lower number. You don't have a 272 mile battery, you have an 84 kWh (usable capacity) battery. It's like a fuel tank in an ICE car. You have a tank with capacity of X litres/gallons. The manufacturer may say the car has a certain range in typical usage, but it'll show a different number for range for each driver depending on how you've been driving. You won't say your car isn't letting you fill the tank if it starts showing a lower range during aggressive driving, or letting you overfill the fuel tank if it starts showing longer range while hypermiling.