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What kind of 'useful' information were you hoping to gain?
Taycan can easily beat the EPA estimate when driven by a real person in the real world.
Tesla can't match the EPA rating when driven by a real person in the real world.
What else one needed to know?
That much is already known. It’s been proven time and again, so if that’s all the story says, what’s the point?
I wanted more of a Bjorn Nyland style of discussion. Or maybe like Dan Edmunds would do. Some kind of data like what type of loop they did, etc. This was really thin. We drove car, here’s the mileage. You’re welcome. Not very useful. Average speed? Weather? Type of roads? Zilch.
If you are hearing all you want to know, why even comment?
Last edited by Needsdecaf; 11-22-2020 at 09:18 PM.
That much is already known. It’s been proven time and again, so if that’s all the story says, what’s the point?
I wanted more of a Bjorn Nyland style of discussion. Or maybe like Dan Edmunds would do. Some kind of data like what type of loop they did, etc. This was really thin. We drove car, here’s the mileage. You’re welcome. Not very useful. Average speed? Weather? Type of roads? Zilch.
If you are hearing all you want to know, why even comment?
At the bare minimum, a Taycan can meet it's EPA rating, while Tesla can only meet theirs in the most optimal conditions.
Seems to be what you seeking for is very specific scenarios, that's how Bjorn does his. Fair enough. But would that be useful to the average consumers? No one really drives exactly how Bjorn does his tests, a more general test would seems much better to replicate real world driving conditions. Doesn't matter the weather, doesn't matter if it's mostly highway or not, doesn't matter the speed. Pretty much is what a consumer do with their cars, EVs or not. They just go about their day and go somewhere and do things. This report is pretty much that way. You get into a fully charged Taycan and just go about doing your things daily, or weekly, and that's how far the car can do on one full charge. Call it the average, or median range or most likely range of a fully charged Taycan.
I mean, I had my e-Tron for more than a year now, I jump in it and I know I will get at least 320km out of a full charge, that's good enough. Same with the Taycan. I jump into the car and I know I can get at least 390km out of it no matter how I drive. Not any different than when I jump into my 991 turbo S with a full tank and I know I will be getting 320km out of it at least. There is no 'specific' condition I need to do in order to squeeze 320km out of the turbo S.
Modern EVs are really good now, there is no need to test them specifically as a EV, they can be treated just like any other normal car. To make EV more wide spread, they cannot be confined to the 'EV' corner and only do EV specific things.
At the bare minimum, a Taycan can meet it's EPA rating, while Tesla can only meet theirs in the most optimal conditions.
Seems to be what you seeking for is very specific scenarios, that's how Bjorn does his. Fair enough. But would that be useful to the average consumers? No one really drives exactly how Bjorn does his tests, a more general test would seems much better to replicate real world driving conditions. Doesn't matter the weather, doesn't matter if it's mostly highway or not, doesn't matter the speed. Pretty much is what a consumer do with their cars, EVs or not. They just go about their day and go somewhere and do things. This report is pretty much that way. You get into a fully charged Taycan and just go about doing your things daily, or weekly, and that's how far the car can do on one full charge. Call it the average, or median range or most likely range of a fully charged Taycan.
I mean, I had my e-Tron for more than a year now, I jump in it and I know I will get at least 320km out of a full charge, that's good enough. Same with the Taycan. I jump into the car and I know I can get at least 390km out of it no matter how I drive. Not any different than when I jump into my 991 turbo S with a full tank and I know I will be getting 320km out of it at least. There is no 'specific' condition I need to do in order to squeeze 320km out of the turbo S.
Modern EVs are really good now, there is no need to test them specifically as a EV, they can be treated just like any other normal car. To make EV more wide spread, they cannot be confined to the 'EV' corner and only do EV specific things.
I'm just looking for more data points. That's all. No agenda. Nothing to prove, not trying to look for any evidence. Specifically I'm trying to see how the Taycan performs in various scenarios. I'm not seeking data on any specific condition, rather the opposite. "Regular people" driving like you say. So to me, understanding whether this was all highway, mixed driving, what type of temperature, etc. does matter. Does it matter to most people? No. But most people don't come on automotive forums to discuss cars either.
I'm just looking for more data points. That's all. No agenda. Nothing to prove, not trying to look for any evidence. Specifically I'm trying to see how the Taycan performs in various scenarios. I'm not seeking data on any specific condition, rather the opposite. "Regular people" driving like you say. So to me, understanding whether this was all highway, mixed driving, what type of temperature, etc. does matter. Does it matter to most people? No. But most people don't come on automotive forums to discuss cars either.
Yes, this article was dumbed down for the masses.
And that's a good thing. The masses can't do details. They only need a ballpark to make their decisions. Just tell them grab the keys and get in and drive like any other car, and you are guaranteed X mileage before needing a charge, that's all the information they need to know, mostly. It will ease the transition for EV from niche product to mainstream. Give them too much details will only confused them and make them think too much about getting into a EV.
The advertised 'range' figure of EVs aren't doing themselves a favour. It's like reverse psychology. Tell them they can go up to a certain range and they will start trying to figure out under what scenario can they do that range and start worrying about they aren't doing the right thing to get the max range. But if you tell someone the minimum range they can expect, the worry is gone, they won't try to match their own situation to a specific scenario.
It works even better if they are planning road trips. A car with a min range figure of 200 miles means they will start looking for chargers ~180 mile mark, but if they get there and the gauge still showing 30% charge left? they can adjust on the fly and drive off to the next one. Tell them the car is capable of a max range of 400 miles, they will perhaps plan charging around the 300-350mile mark, but if the gauge reach 50% before the 200 mile marker, they might start panicking and stressed about how do they make the next stop, and what they needed to do to 'stretch' the legs to reach that charger or trying to find the closest one to top off.
I'm so tired of arguing (not on Rennlist) with Tesla fanboys about the EPA ratings and how they don't represent real world experiences and data (especially for the Taycan), that I decided to put together a couple of charts using the data the YouTuber Bjorn has been gathering. I thought you guys might like to see them as they are relevant to the discussion above.
If someone where cross shopping a Tesla Model S LR (402 mile EPA rating) versus a Porsche Taycan 4S (203 mile EPA rating) it might come as a surprise that the Model S won't go 199 miles further than a Taycan at 75mph but only 9 miles.
Last edited by manitou202; 11-23-2020 at 06:48 PM.
You are old enough to know EPA ratings has been rubbish since the gasoline car days. Their test cycle is simply unrealistic, no one, absolutely no one use the same driving style. Like, their acceleration test is like barely moving the gas pedal, you drive like that in Detroit or on the LA freeway, you gonna have more bullet holes on you than a shooting range target.
The WLTP rating, while not quite perfect, is much closer to how real world people drives.
11-20-2020, 05:51 PM
[InsideEV] Porsche Taycan 4S Real-World 70 MPH Range Test
