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I have to wonder how much of the performance of the Taycan is programmable.
what we know from EV's is that quite a bit is programable with in the degrees of freedom of the maximum battery discharge rate to the EV motors, and the maximum strength field the motors can generate/accept, which is a factor determined by the magnets and amount of Copper - after those two physical limits the rest is software - which should be a Porsche marketing guys dream - we all believe/know the boxster/caymans are engineered to not eclipse the 911 and some of that is software, but also some mechanical limits/differences - there is way less difference between a more powerful EV motor vs. a slightly less powerful EV motor - so software to the rescue - this is further bourn out by the "overboost" Porsche talks about - the software lets the batteries discharge at a higher rate into the EV motor which can clearly accept it for like 3 seconds…
conclusion - the Taycan is probably under spec leaving the factory, and it's all about the software within some degrees of freedom around the actual limits of the battery/EV motors ... i.e. I'd love to see what an "unlocked" Taycan is capable of…
I would be 100% unsurprised in future EV's that the segment/performance difference is purely software with no actual hardware differences.
I had heard that the entire UK 2019/20 allocation of Taycans, was totally covered by buyer deposits. I wonder how many of those will be firmed up now that the price is known. I will wait until dealer demo cars and/or bored first owners put theirs on the market, to see how the secondhand market price is looking, before I make up my mind as to whether to jump or not. My problem is my semi-annual commute to and from the UK to my other house in the south of France, where the total distance is 800miles/1280 kilometers. For that I would need a minimum of two 100% recharge stops and that depends on finding an Ionity charger at the correct locations so probably three or more recharge stops. I can do that journey easily on one fill up in my Panamera 4 e-Hybrid. The other factor is that DMS in the UK are offering an upgrade on the 4 e-hybrid from 460 HP to 660 HP and from 700Nm up to 860Nm.
I understand the Turbo and Turbo S have different inverters, so not just a software hack from one to the other.
I would be 100% unsurprised in future EV's that the segment/performance difference is purely software with no actual hardware differences.
IBM used to be famous for that, you would buy a main-frame computer from them and when you needed more hard drive space you would arrange a service call and the tech would run some software and voila you suddenly have more hard drive space.
Or your computer was too slow for the jobs needed, and the tech call would run some software and you had more CPUs added to your system.
The hardware was always in there, and by making only one hardware model they got economics of scale to make the computers cheaper, and what you bought and saw working was defined by the software installed.
Also, like Tesla - Porsche is probably being very conservative in the stresses to the hardware and as time goes by and they collect data they can raise the demands to the hardware without pushing too hard. Remember in many ways the improvements to the Tesla cars by software updates meant the hardware was already capable doing the job, the question is how far can you push it.
If the Taycan can do power bursts for three seconds now, what happens if you extend that time? Bet you running for a full minute you would burn out the motor, but what about 5 seconds, 10 seconds maybe 15 seconds? Porsche needs to collect the data first before it can push such an update, but I bet you will see one soon.
Earl Colby Pottinger (Tesla, Taycan, Bollinger, Rivian and other BEVs fan)
How can Porsche expand production? The nay-sayers said there was no demand for electric cars. Not just Teslas, the claims have been made that there is no need or demand for any electric cars.
Earl Colby Pottinger (Tesla, Taycan, Bollinger, Rivian and other BEVs fan)
In Europe the demand is forced through legislation - orders are already open for the VW ID.3 which has a range up to 385 miles and relatively small footprint.
In Europe the demand is forced through legislation - orders are already open for the VW ID.3 which has a range up to 385 miles and relatively small footprint.
People are forced to buy a Porsche?
Earl Colby Pottinger (Tesla, Taycan, Bollinger, Rivian and other BEVs fan)
What is "DMS"? a third-party company? You say that they'll "tune" your current E-Hybrid and increase the horsepower by 200??
Yes a third party tuning company but they have been around for a long time and are very reputable. Their work includes re-programming the various ECU and gearchange controllers. They give an engine warranty as part of the package. I had my 996 Turbo X50 uprated from 450 to 550HP (a bit of a beast) and my 997 Turbo S uprated to 560 HP (a lovely car which I kept for 11 years), both by DMS. However, I was driving my Panamera yesterday and I have to admit to thinking that given the rather large size of the car, for small European roads, it is maybe quick enough as standard. French roads are now limited to 80KPH and many UK roads to 50 MPH.
Get the range up, the price down, and a large array of fast chargers, then probably. Until then, I'll drive a Tesla. And yes, I currently own a Porsche as well. Love em both, but for different reasons.
Decided to take back my deposit. If anything Porsche did a good job luring people into the brand that wouldn't have otherwise! Ended up with a 2018 Panamera 4S to hold me over until 2023.
Seems like I am in minority here, but I think Taycan 4S is a good proposition. I had a Tesla model S P85D and 2 model 3s. The price of the 4S configured the way I would like is similar to the price of the P85D back in 2014 (~130k vs 125k). Same range (expect EPA around 250 miles), slightly slower acceleration, but vastly superior fit and finish. I am in.
Tesla makes great EVs, Porsche still has to learn a lot about battery management and improve their range. But since the 253 miles of range of the P85D was good enough for me for 3 years, I think the same will happen with the Taycan - until Porsche gets better at it. There are a few things I will miss from Tesla (Autopilot, summon for backing up when an idiot parks too close next to you, awesome user interface - minus the glovebox thing).
Last edited by svp6; 10-19-2019 at 02:34 PM.
Reason: clarification
In Europe the 4S is more than the e-Hybrid, which is more economical and slightly faster (more torque, a fraction more total power). I think very few 4S cars have been sold in Europe - why would you? I believe that in Europe, over 50% of Panamera sales have been the 4 E-Hybrid. Other than the size which is on the big side for European minor roads, I am more pleased than I expected to be with my E-Hybrid, after many years driving 911's, the last 15 in Turbo S models. I only got it as with a bad back, I can no longer lift child seats for grandchildren into the back of my 911. I still have a 1977 911RSR as a big boys' toy.
I will yank my deposit because of range. For me- this isn’t viable yet until the real world range exceeds 300 (under aggressive driving). My understanding is, under aggressive driving you would be lucky to get 200. Lucky. Therefore- fail.
ICE cars can have less than a 300 mile range because getting gas is quick and readily available.
To be fair- I believe electric cars in the luxury segment are superior to turbo charged cars because they are smoother and quieter. They really make ICE engines seem like a relic. For fun, I prefer a normally aspirated ICE. Therefore, I will have both when the range is improved.
I will yank my deposit because of range. For me- this isn’t viable yet until the real world range exceeds 300 (under aggressive driving). My understanding is, under aggressive driving you would be lucky to get 200. Lucky. Therefore- fail.
ICE cars can have less than a 300 mile range because getting gas is quick and readily available.
My M3 didn’t break 200mi range, and my 911 isn’t much better. If a trip is longer than that I’m flying anyway. For people with chargers at home, or convenient access at or nearby work, these ranges are more than enough. Charging at work or home is far more convenient than a gas station. The majority of folks commute less than 20mi.
sure, that’s not suitable for everyone, but it is suitable for many people. Personally I’d take 120mi range if the car could weigh as little as a cayman while performing like a Porsche
09-23-2019, 03:05 PM
