3 years EA charging included with purchase
01-28-2019, 02:48 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
3 years EA charging included with purchase
01-28-2019, 03:48 PM
#2
Game changer! This is something a lot of future Taycan drivers will want. And if there are enough stations free long distance driving tops it off.
GOOD MOVE PORSCHE!
Earl Colby Pottinger (Tesla, Bollinger, Rivian and other BEVs fan)
GOOD MOVE PORSCHE!
Earl Colby Pottinger (Tesla, Bollinger, Rivian and other BEVs fan)
01-28-2019, 05:33 PM
#3
At the end of the day they’ll more than cover their costs with increased price. They just figure the marketing of free charging is more compelling than a slightly lower sales price. The buyer is paying regardless. Being in a cheaper area for electricity and not near a dealership I’d probably be better off without the increased price and just pay for the charges.
01-28-2019, 05:53 PM
#4
RL Community Team
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Damn, 350 KW is some seriously fast charging.
Of course, they had to shut down all the high capacity chargers last week:
https://insideevs.com/vw-electrify-a...argers-safety/
I'm glad to see this. Just hope these manufacturers get on board with a common plug type. CCS, Chademo or Tesla. Who will win?
Of course, they had to shut down all the high capacity chargers last week:
https://insideevs.com/vw-electrify-a...argers-safety/
I'm glad to see this. Just hope these manufacturers get on board with a common plug type. CCS, Chademo or Tesla. Who will win?
01-28-2019, 07:41 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
It makes for good press. But it will be interesting to see how long they can sustain it before tapering needs to kick in.
You forgot GB/T - which is the Chinese standard. China being China, they decided to go their own way. It is a good trade barrier to help their internal companies. It is also similar to CHAdeMO...
At this point, CHAdeMO seems going nowhere except for Japan. Here in the U.S., the new Leaf is still using CHAdeMO. But EA and others are giving short shrift to CHAdeMO by only placing one CHAdeMO 'hose' at a site, and all the rest CCS. Outside of Nissan (and Mitsubishi), it seems any new non-Tesla is using CCS. In a sense, it is too bad - because it is the only one that has the same connector world-wide. OTOH, it is a huge, ugly, connector.
The Europeans are pushing CCS really hard - to the point of legislating it as a requirement. Tesla has started delivering Euro Model 3s with (Type 2) CCS connections, and are upgrading the Superchargers to have dual hoses. It is a little easier to do this in Europe than in the U.S., because European Teslas have always used the Type 2 connector. So nothing changes for AC charging, and it is just a matter of which pins are used for DC charging. (Model S/X reused a couple of existing pins for Supercharging. CCS requires two new ones.) I am guessing when the S and X get refreshed, the Euro versions will also be switched to CCS.
My guess is that in ten years every new EV will have CCS - except in China and maybe Japan. All Teslas Superchargers will have dual hoses just like they are doing in Europe right now. Of course there will still be the North American CCS (with Type 1 connectors) vs European (with Type 2 connectors)... Type 2 allows three-phase AC charging - which is common in Europe, but not in North American homes.
Of course, they had to shut down all the high capacity chargers last week:
https://insideevs.com/vw-electrify-a...argers-safety/
I'm glad to see this. Just hope these manufacturers get on board with a common plug type. CCS, Chademo or Tesla. Who will win?
https://insideevs.com/vw-electrify-a...argers-safety/
I'm glad to see this. Just hope these manufacturers get on board with a common plug type. CCS, Chademo or Tesla. Who will win?
At this point, CHAdeMO seems going nowhere except for Japan. Here in the U.S., the new Leaf is still using CHAdeMO. But EA and others are giving short shrift to CHAdeMO by only placing one CHAdeMO 'hose' at a site, and all the rest CCS. Outside of Nissan (and Mitsubishi), it seems any new non-Tesla is using CCS. In a sense, it is too bad - because it is the only one that has the same connector world-wide. OTOH, it is a huge, ugly, connector.
The Europeans are pushing CCS really hard - to the point of legislating it as a requirement. Tesla has started delivering Euro Model 3s with (Type 2) CCS connections, and are upgrading the Superchargers to have dual hoses. It is a little easier to do this in Europe than in the U.S., because European Teslas have always used the Type 2 connector. So nothing changes for AC charging, and it is just a matter of which pins are used for DC charging. (Model S/X reused a couple of existing pins for Supercharging. CCS requires two new ones.) I am guessing when the S and X get refreshed, the Euro versions will also be switched to CCS.
My guess is that in ten years every new EV will have CCS - except in China and maybe Japan. All Teslas Superchargers will have dual hoses just like they are doing in Europe right now. Of course there will still be the North American CCS (with Type 1 connectors) vs European (with Type 2 connectors)... Type 2 allows three-phase AC charging - which is common in Europe, but not in North American homes.
Last edited by whiz944; 01-28-2019 at 08:02 PM.
01-29-2019, 11:58 AM
#6
Really nice but there are exactly zero Electrify America charging stations on my route through Utah. Of course I pass four Tesla Supercharger stations on the same route. I wish VW all the best but they have a ways to go yet...
01-29-2019, 12:51 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
I think VAG is making a mistake by offering free high-speed charging. "Free" always invites abuse, and the limited numbers of stalls at each location will result in long lines with lots of frustration. Besides - who wants to cool their heels at a car dealership, of all places, while their car charges? That will get old fast.
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01-29-2019, 03:29 PM
#8
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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They will start popping up fast. After all, VW had to invest a HUGE chunk of money in it.
Maybe not by EA, but there are some CCS charging sites along I-15 from Las Vegas to Ogden. I-70 and I-80 are problems though.
I think VAG is making a mistake by offering free high-speed charging. "Free" always invites abuse, and the limited numbers of stalls at each location will result in long lines with lots of frustration. Besides - who wants to cool their heels at a car dealership, of all places, while their car charges? That will get old fast.
I think VAG is making a mistake by offering free high-speed charging. "Free" always invites abuse, and the limited numbers of stalls at each location will result in long lines with lots of frustration. Besides - who wants to cool their heels at a car dealership, of all places, while their car charges? That will get old fast.
They are popping up at WalMarts here in the Houston Area. Better than a dealership I suppose...
01-29-2019, 03:30 PM
#9
The
Hwy 191/6 cutoff between Moab and Spanish Fork gets you across the Colorado River and connects I-70 to I-15. It is an important route in this region and only Tesla has it covered right now. I don’t understand why the utilities aren’t putting charging stations on every pole. Here is an opportunity to take over a significant chunk of the transportation energy market more quickly.
You can always peruse the onsold Boxters while you wait! 😁
Maybe not by EA, but there are some CCS charging sites along I-15 from Las Vegas to Ogden. I-70 and I-80 are problems though.
I think VAG is making a mistake by offering free high-speed charging. "Free" always invites abuse, and the limited numbers of stalls at each location will result in long lines with lots of frustration. Besides - who wants to cool their heels at a car dealership, of all places, while their car charges? That will get old fast.
I think VAG is making a mistake by offering free high-speed charging. "Free" always invites abuse, and the limited numbers of stalls at each location will result in long lines with lots of frustration. Besides - who wants to cool their heels at a car dealership, of all places, while their car charges? That will get old fast.
You can always peruse the onsold Boxters while you wait! 😁
01-29-2019, 05:03 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
The alternative is to do enough L2 charging along the way to bridge the gap. Plugshare shows a few RV campgrounds with 14-50 outlets that could be useful. Speaking of which - anyone know if Porsche has announced the L2 charging speed for the Taycan? A 14-50 can provide 40 amps continuous at 240v - about 10kW. All Teslas, except for the recently introduced Model 3 Medium Range (LEMR), can do L2 charging at 10kW, and in many cases even higher.
I don’t understand why the utilities aren’t putting charging stations on every pole. Here is an opportunity to take over a significant chunk of the transportation energy market more quickly.
You can always peruse the onsold Boxters while you wait! ��
At this point, my attitude is "no plug, no sale".
01-31-2019, 10:35 AM
#11
EA, or someone, really should have a CCS site in Green River. Not only would it help you on the way to Moab, it is a (actually THE) critical missing link along I-70 between the Midwest and West right now. There are currently CCS sites in Fillmore, UT and Grand Junction, CO. Distance between the two is about 260 miles with lots of hills in between. Not sure any non-Tesla can do that today at highway speeds - especially in bad weather.
The alternative is to do enough L2 charging along the way to bridge the gap. Plugshare shows a few RV campgrounds with 14-50 outlets that could be useful. Speaking of which - anyone know if Porsche has announced the L2 charging speed for the Taycan? A 14-50 can provide 40 amps continuous at 240v - about 10kW. All Teslas, except for the recently introduced Model 3 Medium Range (LEMR), can do L2 charging at 10kW, and in many cases even higher.
At this point, my attitude is "no plug, no sale".
The alternative is to do enough L2 charging along the way to bridge the gap. Plugshare shows a few RV campgrounds with 14-50 outlets that could be useful. Speaking of which - anyone know if Porsche has announced the L2 charging speed for the Taycan? A 14-50 can provide 40 amps continuous at 240v - about 10kW. All Teslas, except for the recently introduced Model 3 Medium Range (LEMR), can do L2 charging at 10kW, and in many cases even higher.
At this point, my attitude is "no plug, no sale".
How about Porsche replaces the slow selling Boxster/Cayman with a speedy rear drive two seat EV sports roadster/coupe with, say, a 50-60 kWh battery which sells in the $55-75k range?
01-31-2019, 10:54 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Porsche has said the onboard charger for Taycan is 22,000 watts - I’m thinking that is 3 Phase EU rating - US will be less in my opinion since that is more than 100 amps at 240 volts - but that could mean 17,000 watts in US or 72 amps charge rate like upgraded chargers in the Tesla Model X/S
72 amps requires a 90 amp breaker
22,000 watts would require a 90 amp charge rate at 240 volts or a 110 amp breaker - not impossible for L2 charging in the US, but to date no L2 chargers that I know of are more than 100 amp breaker, and I believe the J-1772 standard tops out at 80 amps (100 amp breaker)
ill be be thrilled if the US Taycan is 48 amps or more in the US! 72/80 would be great!
72 amps requires a 90 amp breaker
22,000 watts would require a 90 amp charge rate at 240 volts or a 110 amp breaker - not impossible for L2 charging in the US, but to date no L2 chargers that I know of are more than 100 amp breaker, and I believe the J-1772 standard tops out at 80 amps (100 amp breaker)
ill be be thrilled if the US Taycan is 48 amps or more in the US! 72/80 would be great!
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 01-31-2019 at 11:31 AM.
01-31-2019, 11:08 AM
#13
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Thread Starter
Tesla charge rates are as follows - bigger amps require optional charger upgrade at factory
Model S 40 or 80 amps
Model S updated 48/72 amps
Model X 48/72 amps
Model 3 48 amps
Model 3 short ranges 32 amps (not shipping yet/ever?)
Chevy Bolt has a maximum charge rate of 32 amps
most public L2 chargers are 24-32 amps @ 208 volts - EVGo/ChargePoint/blink/electrify American - very very few public j-1772 L2 chargers are more than 32 amps
the J-1772 charging standard for L2 only covers up to 80 amps or about 19,200 watts
higher charge rates tend to be direct DC and are cover by L3 charging specifications - Porsche is going in NA with the CCS plug standard which covers L1-L3 charging rates
350,000 watts DC is the current gold standard for DC fast charging - no EVs are currently shipping that charge faster than 120,000 watts
Tesla Superchargers are 120,000 watts maximum - the 3 is rumored to be able to charge faster than 120,000, but who know since no chargers exist in the wild to prove that
Tesla’s expansion plans include both 72,000 watt chargers (urban) and 120,000 (highway) watt chargers - so far they don’t mix chargers at a given site
EA’s plans call for a mix of 50,000, 150,000, 350,000 watt charges at each site
the Bolt can charge at 55,000 watts maximum
80 amps L2 requires a 100 amp breaker and appropriate wire
Teslas HPWC charger supports up to 80 amp charge rate
ClipperCreek has a 70 amp J-1772 charger
RV Parks and race tracks tend to have NEMA 14-50 plugs which are 50 amp 240 volts - 40 amp charge rate or 9600 watts
you neea a portable EVSE with a 14-50 plug to use these types of plugs to charge an EV
Model S 40 or 80 amps
Model S updated 48/72 amps
Model X 48/72 amps
Model 3 48 amps
Model 3 short ranges 32 amps (not shipping yet/ever?)
Chevy Bolt has a maximum charge rate of 32 amps
most public L2 chargers are 24-32 amps @ 208 volts - EVGo/ChargePoint/blink/electrify American - very very few public j-1772 L2 chargers are more than 32 amps
the J-1772 charging standard for L2 only covers up to 80 amps or about 19,200 watts
higher charge rates tend to be direct DC and are cover by L3 charging specifications - Porsche is going in NA with the CCS plug standard which covers L1-L3 charging rates
350,000 watts DC is the current gold standard for DC fast charging - no EVs are currently shipping that charge faster than 120,000 watts
Tesla Superchargers are 120,000 watts maximum - the 3 is rumored to be able to charge faster than 120,000, but who know since no chargers exist in the wild to prove that
Tesla’s expansion plans include both 72,000 watt chargers (urban) and 120,000 (highway) watt chargers - so far they don’t mix chargers at a given site
EA’s plans call for a mix of 50,000, 150,000, 350,000 watt charges at each site
the Bolt can charge at 55,000 watts maximum
80 amps L2 requires a 100 amp breaker and appropriate wire
Teslas HPWC charger supports up to 80 amp charge rate
ClipperCreek has a 70 amp J-1772 charger
RV Parks and race tracks tend to have NEMA 14-50 plugs which are 50 amp 240 volts - 40 amp charge rate or 9600 watts
you neea a portable EVSE with a 14-50 plug to use these types of plugs to charge an EV
Charge point faster chargers tend to be 25,000 watts, with the rare 50,000 watt chargeg
EvGo is pretty good most/all of their chargers are 50,000 watts
most US fast chargers have both a Chademo and CCS plug/cord - but only one plug can be active at a time
EvGo is pretty good most/all of their chargers are 50,000 watts
most US fast chargers have both a Chademo and CCS plug/cord - but only one plug can be active at a time
01-31-2019, 11:27 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
22,000 watt on board charger was pulled from this article
https://electrek.co/2019/01/24/porsc...rsion-details/
The executive also confirmed another few details about the production version: it will have a ~90 kWh battery pack and a 22 kW onboard charger.
https://electrek.co/2019/01/24/porsc...rsion-details/
The executive also confirmed another few details about the production version: it will have a ~90 kWh battery pack and a 22 kW onboard charger.
01-31-2019, 03:26 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
The Model 3 "Medium Range" (LEMR) that was introduced a couple months ago also has a 32 amp charger instead of 48. It is currently shipping, so cars are out there.
I'd imagine the Porsche "22kW" number is a EU three-phase thing as well. Three-phase charging is common outside of North America - which is why they use a Type-2 connection instead of Type-1 J1772. For all we know, the US number could be 1/3rd that or 7.2kW.
IMHO, any EV with aspirations of being a decent road trip car in the U.S. (or Canada) should support 40 amp (10kW) charging. This in order to take full advantage of RV facilities that have multiple 14-50 receptacles. There are literally thousands of locations around. It is a useful resource to keep in mind when travelling out in the sticks.