daveo4porsche

thanks @whiz944 - Corning and Williams are about the same distance - but Williams will be the better bet given newer install, likely higher charge rate, and more stalls, Corning is known for being busy, and is in fact the _ONLY_ supercharger location where I've ever had to wait personally.

But fast charging @ Walmart in Willows is better than nothing and I'm still hopeful for a CCS adaptor.

whiz944

I haven't Supercharged at Corning yet. But in the past when I've driven by in an ICE car, I've enjoyed stopping by the olive store.

The only Supercharger I've had to wait at so far was at Roseville. And it was only for a couple of minutes. The last couple times I've been by there, I've gone to Rocklin instead. Busy, but more stalls and no waiting.

That would be nice. They've already done a CCS2 adapter for Model S and X in Europe. The adapter is passive too - so wouldn't cost near as much as the CHAdeMO adapter does. I bet it wouldn't take much to make a similar design work for North American Teslas.

daveo4porsche

this will however be Ideal for tracking a Taycan! with at least 4 chargers at willows less than 7 miles from Thunderhill - I forsee "electron" run's during lunch for PCA track days

gary.lee

Just remember you wont be getting software and autopilot update every couple months and immense super charger network.

yvesvidal

I did not read the whole enchilada of comments (9 pages).

Excellent review on the first post.
The 3D Performance Model 3 now comes with 20 inches wheels mounted with Michelin Pilot Sport 4th generation. It changes a lot of what you noticed in your first post.

Yves

daveo4porsche

@Petevb love to hear your thoughts now - 1 year later.

waiting for PDK

I'm very late to this thread, but thought my observations might be of some use (or continuing controversy). This weekend I had the chance to drive a friend's model 3 dual motor extensively through the Finger Lakes wine country in upstate New York, so mostly rural highways with some interstate. In other words, it would have been a great 911 weekend. I didn't use autopilot or auto braking, so I'll skip tech and styling analysis. The interior is very bright and open, and the goofy giant central screen is really a non-issue after a short period. That said, having to use the tablet to open the glovebox, adjust the mirrors and--especially--adjust the vents is overkill. A simple HUD with speed and range would be a fantastic addition. I found the seats comfortable, but very unsupportive. You definitely sit on, not in them, though comparing them to Porsche buckets is perhaps unfair. The steering is heavy and the car reminds you of its mass and Newton's first law whenever you change direction at speed. Handling was fine with very little roll and the car seemed buttoned down on the surprisingly smooth roads. Acceleration is brutal. On paper maybe slower than a 911, but the speed is always there with just a push of the pedal--no setting launch control or mashing the pedal and waiting a bit. On factory tires there is barely any noise, just a bit of wind around the A pillars. I never identified motor noise and the tire noise seemed very muted. It is a relaxing environment. One pedal driving is easy to master and does change how you approach urban driving. Did I mention the acceleration?

I'm not in the market for an electric, Tesla, or Taycan, and wonder how the Taycan will fare post early adopting badge snobs, Porsche fanatics and sports car lovers who appreciate its anticipated handling superiority. I'm guessing it will be louder (tire, wind and road noise) than a Tesla, not notably faster on a test drive and is definitely less tech-y, all of which could make it a tougher sell.

Petevb

Sure; I've now got 22k miles on the Model 3 dual motor. Many trips to Tahoe (skiing in the winter), Yosemite, Napa, Bakerfield plus lots of commuting. My feelings remain mixed...

Overall I find it to be a "real car" in a way that I don't think any non-Tesla electric can claim to be (so far). There's still 1% of my street driving where I wouldn't consider taking the Model 3 (see here), but I'll be the first to admit that's not a use case most will consider. For everything else, including many 400-600 mile round trips in snow, etc, taking the Tesla has been both a no-brainer and trouble free. Which is not to say that I haven't needed to make allowances- I have, and they have made trips slightly less convenient than gas powered cars. But only slightly...

Example: it's 186 miles from my house one of our favorite hotels in Tahoe, yet despite the fact that the Model 3 has a "310 mile" range I've never managed to make it there in a single charge. I've made it back on one charge many times with lots of range to spare, but up the mountains in winter with an admittedly heavy foot I've always needed to stop at a supercharger along the way. That's generally been fine, however we did have to wait for a slot and then deal with a slower charge at least once (and predictably my wife gave me a hard time). I'll also say that the reason the hotel is one of our favorites (besides being awesome) is that it offers overnight charging, and when we take the Tesla this is something we look for. Selecting for that limits our hotel choices, despite which we probably add ~15 minutes to our average round-trip vs a gasoline car that will also need to stop once. That said I probably save ~15 minutes per week by never visiting a gas station (or oil change, service, etc) when we're not on trips, so in the end it likely works out in our favor. And did I mention 22k miles and zero trips or dollars for maintenance, not even tires, plus stupidly cheap to free "gas" with the right charging schedule? Around here with as many Superchargers as there are I could easily live with the M3D as my only car...

I wouldn't want to, however. Every trip in the GT3 reminds me exactly how much I'm missing. The Tesla just doesn't feel like a car built by "car guys", and as the car ages I'm reminded of that more and more. It's still fast, in fact faster than when new given the 5% power upgrade Tesla pushed a few months back (it was noticeable). However I've grown less thrilled by the suspension as time has gone on- particularly jumping out of the locked down Porsche it wallows with slight lethargy and imprecision. Perhaps the shocks are already wearing? Interestingly my wife never gets carsick in the GT3 even if a push, but get above 5/10th in the Tesla and she notices fast. And she's not the only one- another car guy friend (with a supercharged Viper and a Porsche race car) refuses to ride in the Model 3. I'm not sure what it is, but it's there to the point that even I will notice something sometimes.

The flip side is effective and effortless speed. Instantly. Anywhere. Uphill snow covered road in Tahoe at altitude? The Model 3 D is king of the road, passing anything and everything at any time. In fact it's still enough of a jack of all trades that there's nothing I'd trade it for at the moment. The car-pool lane and charging at home saves over an hour per week, the car swallows near SUV levels of crap, it's quick enough to overlook some of its dynamic flaws, it goes anywhere I need to and it's stupidly cheap and easy to run. Sure I still gaze longingly from the carpool lane at all manner of fun cars as I whisk by (BMW Ms, fast Audi Avants, etc) but I quickly regain my senses as they recede in the rear view. As practical cars go this is still it for me at the moment...

I just wish it didn't feel like settling. I remain more convinced than ever that Porsche has a huge opportunity as they build out their charge network and capitalize on the ****** in the dynamic armor Tesla has left open to exploitation. In the end the Model 3 is very good overall, but I feel we'll look back on it as a step along the path to a "complete" electric car rather than the final destination.

whiz944

Last weekend I drove my TM3 from my house near San Jose to Truckee on a single charge. Still had 30 miles on the GOM. Maybe could have made it to Reno or the North Shore of Tahoe, but wasn’t trying for any records. Ate a quick lunch at the Drunken Monkey while Supercharging.

Needsdecaf

Nice review.

Ive got 19k on mine in 8 months. I agree re: the Porsche comparison. Especially to the GT3. But you have to give it a break. Gt3’s make ordinary Carreras look weak.

I feel like the Model 3 is about $10,000 away from being a really outstanding car. Maybe $15k. How?

1. Better suspension. The Model 3 suspension is not tied down. In addition, it has a strange bounce / bob to it over concrete expansion joints. I’m no suspension expert but imagine Ohlins / KW / Fox / JRZ etc. could make a really nice kit for , dunno $5k?

2. Better seats. The stock Model 3 seats are surprisingly comfortable. But they are overly squishy and slippery and don’t hold you in for ****. This would go a looooong way to re-onnecting you to the car. Again, maybe $5k? Maybe less if you’re paying OEM prices.

3. Better / higher quality center console. Seriously, the stock one is cheap and feels cheap. And you use it a lot. Spend like $500 more and up the plastics quality. Add adaptive cup holders. Add standard wireless charging.

4. Big brake kit.

I feel like with those changes, the Model 3 would be an incredible car. I intend to remedy #1 at some point but can’t see myself doing #2 or #3.

daveo4porsche

@Petevb as always Pete well written and insightful - I agree with your review and I personally appreciate you taking time to share your thoughts with everyone. Thank you.

destaccado

There's a lot of Porsche cheerleading on this site (for obvious reasons) but the funny thing is that most of their modern cars outside the Motorsport / special products are simply exactly what you'd expect of rebadged VW luxury goods.

I don't even necessarily mean that as an insult but a lot of people seem to pretend there's still something more and I no longer do. The Porsche of 2019 isn't the Porsche of our childhoods. I honestly feel the Porsche we all grew up loving is more like the McLaren of today.

I fully expect the Taycan to be exactly what we expect - a sporty sedan version of the Etron with a 992-like interior. It'll probably be like every modern Porsche where it looks good but the reality is the materials are a bit cheap unless you opt for a ton of expensive options. In other areas it will have the typical Porsche cost-cutting; e.g. I'm guessing the screen tech is tier 2 because it's an area that 2019 Porsche would probably decide they could save some coin. "Hey look we offer this special four screen option instead of including 1 or 2 super good ones." It'll offer Tesla Model 3-like performance but at significantly higher price while including the upgrades Needsdecaf referred to above. Excited to see if I'm correct or not later today.

ipse dixit

It says quite a bit about the Model 3, if not Tesla as a whole, that it takes a GT3 to make the Model 3 feel lacking.

Drifting

that is insightful....and true.

I could live with my Tesla Model 3 Performance as my only car.....if the GT3 didn’t also exist, and I’d certainly pick the GT3 if I could only have one. I love owning them both.

But it’s the only P-car that I want, as all the turbo Porsches with non GT suspension such as the regular carrera, Turbo carrera, panamera, Boxster, etc just aren’t that special anymore, and the M3P is fun to drive and I’m sure the Taycan even more so.

markchristenson

This has been an interesting thread (I was actually looking for how to tag another user in a post and came across this). I recently bought a M3D and, after a month+ and one road trip (San Diego to Las Vegas), I would agree with petevb and his assessment (although I do not have nearly the track experience, I think I have enough to agree with the "five tenths" comment about the M3D). I also thought the interior weird until I got used to it, and even something like "how do I turn this off?" quickly went the way of the Dodo after a few days. It's a great commuting car, but I would analogize it to using an iPhone as a replacement for a hifi system. Yes, you can listen to the music/drive it, but it's missing the engagement.