manitou202

As some of you may have noticed I've been all over the place when it comes to the Taycan. After the initial unvieling I was disappointed. Then I started to fall in love with it, and decided F*** it I'm ordering a Turbo. And now I've cancelled my order.

Like I mentioned in the EPA thread, my primary reason for cancelling my order was price. The 4S specs didn't seem right for the price (especially compared to the Audi equivalent E-tron GT) , and the Turbo was going to be too much of a stretch. I thought I could swing it, but something else has come up personally that is preventing me from making the purchase.

So, in my opinion price is still an issue with the Taycan. But I can tell you that the range is not going to be an issue for most. Let me explain.

A few weeks ago when I cancelled my order I decided to set my sights on a Model S or an E-tron. Currently we own a 2018 Nissan Leaf (40kwh battery) as our extra car primarily used by our Au Pair, my wife drives a 2018 Tesla Model X 100D, and I've had the Panamera 4 E-hybrid. In the past I've had several other electric cars (2013 Nissan Leaf, and an i-3). So I have quite a bit of experience living with EV's.

When my wife picked up her Model X I fell in love with it. I was a Tesla skeptic until we test drove one. Now that we've had it for a little over a year, I'm still regularly blown away by this car. Yes, Tesla has many flaws as discussed ad nauseam, but overall they continue to change to game when it comes to what we think of as a car.

So, over the past year I really wanted a pure EV and not the plug-in hybrid. The Panamera was a wonderful car, but driving in pure electric mode it's completely neutered. Once I became comfortable driving the Tesla long distances I had no need for a gas powered vehicle. But I still wanted a long range EV for some day trips we do in Colorado (primarily to go skiing).

Once I decided to cancel my Taycan order I was pretty convinced that a Model S was going to be the car for me, but I wanted to hold out for the rumored refresh. In the meantime Audi sent my an invite to drive an E-tron and I thought why not. Let me say I was throughly impressed with the E-tron immediately. Yes it doesn't have some of the tech of the Tesla, but I felt more at home in the E-tron. It's not quite as sporty as the Model X, but it's plenty fast. Due to the instant torque it "feels" faster than my Panamera, even though the stats show otherwise. Well, Audi gave me over $10k off plus I get $12.5k in tax credits ($7500 federal and $5000 Colorado), so the E-tron was a little over $50k. Considering it's about $25k less than a base Model S (due to the discount and the expired tax credit) I thought it was worth a bit of a risk.

My biggest concern was the range of the E-tron. It has a 204 mile EPA range, nearly identical to the Taycan. I know based on experience that our Model X gets quite a bit lower than it's 295 mile EPA range so my assumption has been the E-tron will be in the 150 mile range. Well, after several long trips through the mountains and freezing cold temperatures, it meets or exceeds it's EPA range quite easily.

Here is some data to consider.

Trip to Copper Mountain
Round trip distance: 240 miles
Lots of elevation gain (several 3000ft climbs and descents)
Sub zero temperatures on 50% of the drive (-35F at one point WTF?)
Driving speeds typically 50-70 mph
Similar efficiency in both vehicles

Tesla Model X
watts / mile: 0.405

Audi Etron
watts / mile: 0.414

I fast charged both vehicles on the trip. The Tesla at the Silverthorn Super Charger, and the E-tron at the Electrify America 350kw charger in Frisco.
Because both batteries were cold, the Tesla only hit about 75kw at peak charging and starting dropping after 50% charge.
The E-tron quickly rose to 100kw and held the 100kw until 82% and the slowly began dropping.
Charging time was about three minutes faster on the E-tron to 85% even though it started with less battery

Charing is very fast in the E-tron and I can only imaging the Taycan is going to be better if you can find 350kw chargers. If not the 150kw chargers will still be plenty quick.

Another factor to consider is usable battery capacity. The E-tron has a 95 kwh battery with 83.6 kwh of usably capacity. The Model X is regularly quoted as having a 100 kWh battery, but after digging a bit, it actually has about a 97 kWh battery pack with a useable capacity of 93 kWh. Now it's been regularly reported by Tesla owners that they loose about 5% of their range in the first 10,000 miles. Well, based on several recent trips in the Tesla and charging to 100%, I found that my battery capacity has dropped to about 89 kWh. I calculated this by using the kWh used for the trip divided by the battery percent remaining. After several trips they all came out to 89 kWh of usable capacity.

So, what does this mean. Well using the efficiency numbers above on my Copper Mountain trip, the Tesla only had a range of 220 miles and the E-tron of 202 miles. Now this was very cold temperatures. But it shows that at extreme driving conditions the E-tron almost perfectly hit the EPA range and the Tesla was way below. My average in the Tesla after 10k miles is 0.380 watts / mile which comes out to a range of 234 miles using the reduced battery capacity. The E-tron so far with limited winter driving (500 miles total) is averaging 0.411 which comes out to a range of 203 miles. Almost exactly the EPA rating.

I was skeptical about Porsche's claim regarding the EPA numbers. But now I'm pretty convinced there is some truth. I don't know why, but the Tesla's do seem to do well on the EPA test, but average much lower real world range, versus the Audi / Porsche products seem to do the opposite.

I'm going to be without a Porsche for quite a while. Not sure what my next Porsche purchase might be. Maybe a CPO Taycan wagon in a few years. But if you were feeling like Porsche missed the bar with the range of the Taycan, and you have been using Tesla as a bench mark, I'll tell you as a Tesla fan and E-tron owner you have nothing to worry about.

If anyone has other questions comparing the Tesla and E-tron let me know. They really are very different in a good way. My assumption is the Taycan is going to be more similar to the E-tron in terms of charging, tech, fit / finish, regen, etc.

Needsdecaf

Excellent review, thanks! I test drove an ETron recently and it was great, but felt kind of slow compared to my Model 3. But I didn't get a great test drive and was very distracted by all the nannies I was trying to turn off (lane centering / keeping), etc. My sales person didn't know squat about the car and I wasn't sure about how to adjust regen, acceleration, etc.

But very composed ride. Very nice. And discounts out the a** as you said. I got $7,500 without even trying and was told "there's more".

Definitely a better choice than the aging Model S, IMO. Enjoy!

acoste

Thanks for the write up. Helps me analyzing the X and the E-tron.

Interesting. I wonder if Telsa has multiple versions of batteries or may be a software change. I saw OBD tools showing 102kWh nominal battery. EPA discharged 99kWh out of it. In ideal case they should have discharged 102kWh because the test includes discharging the bottom buffer as well. But they test aged cars (4k-5k mi) and I thought this is just the quick initial aging. So there is a chance Tesla increased the top buffer from 0 or decreased the battery size. Do you have any links?

"As for real capacity, the BMS reports usable capacity at a whopping 98.4 kWh. It also reports a 4 kWh unusable bottom charge, so that's 102.4 kWh total pack capacity!"
https://skie.net/skynet/projects/tes...h+Battery+Pack

On a second thought maybe this guy misread the data and 98.4kWh is the total nominal battery capacity. But he is very experienced, I wouldn't expect that.

svp6

Thank you for your write-up - this is very helpful. I too was concerned about the range, and your experience with the similar drivetrain and battery is encouraging. I suspect you are a very good hypermiler - your average of 380 Wh/mi in the model X is impressive - for comparison, my lifetime average in the much smaller model 3 performance is 360 Wh/mi; I do not think I will be able to match your experience, but the fact that Tesla and e-tron were so close despite EPAs being so far apart tells me the delta between warm and cold weather is most likely much lower with the Audi / Porsche technology than with Tesla.

drcollie

I recently bought an E-Tron as well, and I'm a pretty die-hard Porsche guy (on my 5th 911). I am REALLY enjoying my new Audi, too, I've driven it 1,023 miles just around the region in less than three weeks, range is not even close to being an issue any more than driving around with 1/4 to 1/2 a tank of gas is with an ICE engine car. Do you start every day out with a full tank of petrol in your car or do you fill up about once a week? Same thing, just the gas stations is at your house with a charger cord. It's not really a huge deal. Having said that, if you are a traveling salesman putting on 1,400 miles on a car per week, an EV is probably not the right choice.

Taycan vs E-Tron. Now we all know these are VW Group cars, and they share engineering and features. We also know that Porsche AG is the most profitable car company in the world. And if you play with the Porsche Configurator long enough you see why and say "How the hell did the price get that high? What can I delete that I don't really need?" At least I do that. The dirty little secret is that the Audi comes fully loaded (Prestige package) for $ 84K MSRP. and a Taycan 4S with the same options is $ 137K. The Audi dealer will come off $ 10K on the E-Tron, not sure if you will get much discount on the Taycan. Audi Prestige has full cow, air suspension, adaptive cruise, onboard 150w charger, all the Premium Package stuff, Insulated Glass, a B&O Stereo that is better than the Porsche Bose. Similar battery and range. Is the Taycan worth nearly double? Not to me it isn't. And since these are both first generation VW Group products, I suspect the depreciation to be fairly steep as new tech comes on gangbusters for EV's. To me it makes sense to not spend big money on the Porsche name plate, you may feel otherwise.

Future930

What’s you Wh/mi on the Etron. My 75D X is about 330 wh/mi lifetime 2 years of ownership. Recently got Model 3 performance around 290Wh/mi. Might come down when the year averages out. Winter has higher consumption

Lfcdan

Great read, i have bitten the bullet and in have both on order
the E-Tron will arrive in April and the Taycan will be a month or so later

my reason for choosing both has been build quality, i know the etron has had issues but they appear to be more software related so by the time mine arrives most of the bugs should be sorted!

i looked at the Tesla Model X but too expensive and the Jaguar Ipace is no where near as nice a place to sit as the Etron

drcollie

My E-Tron average consumption to date is 39.1 kWh / 100 miles but I've only had it three weeks now.

I had to run my wife downtown this morning to Washington DC to catch a train at Union Station for NYC, and that was the first trip for my ETron into the city proper, where the roads are horrendous. We both loved the quiet and cushy ride of the air suspension on the Audi over the crappy roads downtown. Another plus!

BTW, no issues on my E-Tron, it was built in October 2019. I think most the issues were the very early models, and fairly quickly resolved. You know how forums are, every problem is blown way out of proportion in a given brand/marque.

BrassFactory

Sports cars are not practical. Agreed. Porsche makes great sports cars, not just great name plates.

Bob Roberts

exactly.
It is so odd when people look at some specs 0-60, range, whatever and say "it is not worth it, can get something cheaper". Yeah, no kidding. You can get a used prius for practically nothing and get a great range on that.

SFsoundguy

I have a Edition One eTron and never get more than 178 range the 21s don’t help. I love the car but it’s no Porsche the ride in numb no feedback from the road it’s a great family car just not exciting to drive in any way. I moved to the eTron from a MS90D now I’m getting a Taycan S4 in April

acoste

Is this the range based on city driving or is it more of a highway range?

manitou202

Is the 178 mile range based on the computer estimate? Is that for a full battery of at 80%?

If that's for a full battery that's 0.470 kWh / mile which seems like something is wrong. I'm way below that in highway winter driving through the mountains.

SFsoundguy

Computer estimate and a 100% full battery. City / highway driving

Whoopsy

I had an e-Tron since end of summer and it is a fantastic car, Tesla can’t even dream about having such a fantastic interior and the Audi is cheaper to boot.

i have been saying for the longest time, but nobody was listening. My Audi never dip below it’s rated 329km range and it routinely exceed that by 10% or more by the time I hit 10% or less charge from a full charge and 100% city driving.

The only time I got close to the rated mileage was round trip from Vancouver to Whistler and back in a cold raining night with everything on. And in Dynamic mode and Sports mode on. The car is permanently set in Dynamic mode and the lowered ride height anyways.