daveo4porsche

gents and ladies (are there any ladies here?). I'm going to be doing San Jose to Portland and back in the next week in my wife's Tesla Model X P100D - this weekend - we will be using Tesla Superchargers and Destination chargers

Tesla Supercharger Map
Tesla Destination Chargers

this thread is NOT to debate that an ICE could be faster (it would be) but rather I'll be documented "actual" factual experiences - this trip is only possible due to the Supercharging network - and I should average 2 supercharger's a day - so the charging time will be co-mingled with food stops to minimize impact of charging on actual travel time - past personal experience has taught me that 2 supercharging stops a day if planned properly makes the actual trip duration indistinguishable from an ICE road trip in that food time tends to take longer than the actual charging of the car - once you're above 2 stops a day the charging time really starts to dominate and the disadvantages of an EV for long distance road tripping really present themselves… 2 stops a day with a full family and bath room and food stops the actual travel time is indistinguishable from a gas car.

Plan is:

1. San Jose to Ashland - overnight at hotel with Tesla L2 Destination chargers (4 of them actually woot!)
2. Ashland to Salem - one supercharging stop in Eugene - visit Willamette college as a potential for my two daughters
3. Salem to Portland - hotel is .3 miles from Tigard Supercharger (no L2 charger at hotel)
4. Portland for a few days visiting college campuses and visiting friends - charge as necessary around Portland - college campuses all tend to have L2 chargers, and some are now having FastDC chargers - so it will be no problem to run around Portland in an EV.
5. Portland to Klamath Falls - visit Crater lake for a day or so (2 superchargers for that segment - Bend Oregon & Klamath Falls - leave Portland at 100% charge
6. Back home to San Jose - 2 charging stops - one if I can stretch it - if not the 2nd fast charging stop will be less than 20 minute (10 probably) because I'll be close enough to home that I won't need a full distance charge, just a top off to get home

I'm also going to be rocking a Tesla Chademo Adapter as a belt/suspenders type approach - Chademo is the DC Fast charging standard used by the Nissan Leaf - and Tesla sells a super ugly and very unwieldy adapter that allows you to access a FastDC Chademo charging station - the best Chademo charging stations tend to be 50 kw - and more commonly 30-40 kw - but there are quite a few of them scattered around given the popularity of the Nissan Leaf - and in a pinch a 25 kw Chademo station is still 2 times faster than the BEST L2 station (12 kw) , and 4 times faster than 90% of L2 stations (6 kW) - for this trip I have no plans to actually use the Chademo adapter, but we'll see and it's best to be prepared.

Tesla Chademo Adapter

I've placed this in a separate thread so it will be easily ignored by those that don't care.

Tesla Superchargers "in play" on this trip - I won't be stopping at all of them - but these are the ones along the route - actual driving and range will dictate which ones I actually need to stop at.

• Bay Area Superchargers as necessary - well over 16 locations > 150 stalls
• Vacaville - 16 stalls
• Corning - 6 stalls
• Mt. Shasta - 20 stalls
• Grants Pass - 8 stalls
• Eugene - 14 stalls
• Woodburn - 8 stalls
• Tigard - 10 stalls
• Sandy - 8 stalls
• Bend - 8 stalls
• Klamath Falls - 8 stalls

10 potential supercharging locations - 106 stalls - all of them 120 kw stations with excellent reliability - we'll see how congestion works for this trip - based on past experience I doubt I'll ever have to wait to charge - we'll see!

Tesla Destination chargers I plan to use (L2 over night charging)

• One L2 Charger in Ashburn @ hotel we are staying at for one night - 13 kW charger (70 amps) - full charge from zero to 100% = 7 hours while sleeping at Hotel (4 stalls)
• One L2 charger in Klamath Falls @ hotel (16 kw charger) (80 amps) - full charge from zero-100% = 6.25 hours
  • Tesla Model X P100D can charge at a maximum L2 charge rate of 72 amps - 240 volts * 72 amps = 17,280 watts - or 17.28 kW for a full charge (zero to 100%) of 5.78 hours

Expected cost to charge during this entire trip: $0.00

• Lifetime Tesla Supercharging is included with my wife's P100D
• Hotel Destination Charging (L2) is typically included as part of being a customer of the associated business

Distance Covered

• San Jose to Ashland - 383 miles - call it 400 - 2 charging stops - possibility only 1
• Ashland to Salem - 241 miles - call it 250 - 1 charging stop
• Salem to Portland - 47 miles - call it 60
• Running around Portland - 200 miles (3 days) - 1 charging stop
• Portland to Klameth Falls - 300 miles - call it 350 - 2 charging stops - possibly only 1
• Klameth Falls - 150 miles sight seeing -
• Klameth Falls to San Jose - 388 miles - call it 400 - 2 charging stops - possibly only 1

1,800 miles round trip - 8 fast charging stops - 1 of which are "non traveling" stops, but rather a fill up to run around the area - use the supercharger near the hotel to top off after each day around Portland.

If I end up using a Chademo or random L2 (Blink/Chargepoint/EVGo) charging during the trip there will be some direct charging costs - I'll do my best to document these charges for all to see - if I end up using them.

Basic approach to road tripping with an EV:

• plan your route and look for fast charging solutions
• find a hotel with L2 charger for overnight (more of them than you think once you start looking)
• charge to 100% at hotel over night while sleeping
• plan your next day - 2 fast charging stops = about 750 miles in one day - 1 to 1.5 hours total time spent charging each day
  • leaving full from hotel to fast charging stop = 250 miles segment one
  • fast charging stop 1 to 2 another 250 miles (30 minute stop)
  • fast charging stop 2 to hotel another 250 miles (30 minute stop)
  • 750 miles in one day - charge overnight at the next hotel

I'm also doing this to show what the Porsche charging network is competing with and it's a combination of Fast Charging and L2 charging at hotels and restaurants that make EV distance travel possible. The irony is Porsche will be rocking a J-1772 EV charging port for the North American car market - and there is an adapter that converts Tesla L2 Destination chargers to J-1772 - so with that adapter Porsche owners (any J-1772 EV really) can also use Tesla Destination chargers) - road tripping in the Taycan will be largely enabled by Porsche's FastDC chargers and Tesla's existing destination charger (L2) network via the $250 adapter a savy Porsche Taycan owner has in their frunk.

to be fair this trip could be done _TODAY_ in a FastDC/CCS standard car according to Plug-share in that there are many Chademo/CCS fast chargers on the same route (I5 north from California to Oregon) - the difference is:

1. these fast chargers are 50 KW only (vs. Tesla 120 kw) - and mostly 25 kW
2. they tend to have only 1 or 2 stalls (congestion is far more of a problem)
3. due to the lower wattage to stops would be closer to 70-80 minutes rather than 20-30 minutes
4. the FastDC/CCS charging network is more fragmented in terms of who's maintaining/monitoring it - so reliability suffers greatly - ask me how I know this.

I'm doing this to provide a factual no BS log of what a trip like this involves with an EV - so all the good/bad will be laid bare for all to see.

I'll track

milage
charging stop - total charging time including any "waiting time" for congestion
and if there was any "delay" introduced by the charging or was it "seamless" with the travel flow (I don't consider overnight charging at a hotel to be a problem or delay my trip).

We'll see how this goes and I hope you enjoy it in the spirit it's being presented - I also look forward to posting a similar log one with with my Taycan and documenting the awesomeness of the 800 volt fast charging stops!

tomhartzell

Looking forward to your next post, Dave -- many thanks for sharing the planning effort expended!

daveo4porsche

I'm looking forward to a theory vs. reality

Theory = 8 or fewer charging stops
Theory = less than 4-5 hours total spent at fast chargers spread over 6 days
Theory = $0.00 spent charging
Theory = at least 250 mile range for the P100D Model X under normal family driving conditions
Theory = minimal time "waiting" beyond normal activity (food + bathroom) during fast charging stops
Theory = L2 charging only overnight at places I'm staying
Theory = no waiting at superchargers for an open spot - congest should be minimal given Tesla's build out of their Supercharging network

we'll see how this pans out vs. reality.

road tripping an EV does take more planning than ICE, but not by that much once you get the hang of it.

hillsdonsmith

daveo4porsche

Day 1 - San Jose to Ashland - 2 supercharger stops - 65 minutes total charging - 1 lunch stop, 1 bathroom/snack (ice cream for family due to long hot traffic backup south of Mt. Shasta) - no real "extra" time at chargers due to "rest stops" and the normal pace of a travel stop for food and comfort.

• Left home @ 100% battery @ 10:23 am
• 1st stop - Corning CA Supercharger - 40 minutes supercharging - no "extra" time - we unplugged when we were done with Lunch - 22% battery to start - 78% battery when we unplugged - $0.00 - 2 of 8 stalls in use when we arrived - 6 of 8 stalls in use when we left - 115 kW charge rate when we plugged in (120 kW max) - 52 kW when we unplugged due to tapering for LiON battery
• 44 minute delay traveling due to reduce lanes south of Mt. Shasta due to construction - OMG what a back up!!! - 105f temperature outside - very very hot day - running AC full blast
• 2nd stop - Mt. Shasta Supercharger - 25 minutes supercharging - 5 min "extra" to get to 60% battery - 21% battery to start - 60% battery when we unplugged - $0.00 - 2 of 16 stalls in use when we arrived - 1 of 16 stalls in use when we left - 112 kW charge rate when we plugged in - 85 kW charge rate when we unplugged
• last stop of the Day - Ashland Oregon - @ hotel - car will charge overnight to 100% included in Hotel room costs - 212 volts @ 40 amps - 9 hour charge - arrived at hotel @ 33% battery
• arrived at hotel 18:10 - 7 hours 47 minutes total travel time - 65 minutes charging time - 396 miles driven - normal traffic speeds - no "babying" the speed to increase range - AC running full blast all day due to high heat all along the route. 13% of total drive time was for charging stops - but we would've stopped that long anyways at both places.

Tomorrow if all goes well - leave Hotel @ 100% - one Supercharger stop on our way to Portland (near Eugene) - should be a 45 minute stop combined with lunch - which will get us to Portland - where we'll be staying for 3 days - Hotel is .3 miles from a Portland area Supercharging - I'm anticipating one supercharger session when we arrive, and one before we leave 3 days later - should both be 60 minutes or more - but will do it at end of day to overlap with dinner hour and hang out in hotel while car charges - no L2 charger at the hotel (sadness).

based on my past experience and rough back of the envelope - I think the total charging time would've be reduced from 65 minutes to about 35-40 minutes for the Porsche 800 volt system - mostly because you can't pump 350 kW for very long if the batteries - the Porsche system might have gotten the car to 90% (vs. the 78% achieved with Tesla's supercharger) - this extra 18% for the 40 minute invested would've come tantalizingly close to making the 2nd stop un-necessary - but even so we had to stop for bathroom and ice cream given driving conditions and human tolerances - so I think the best that could have been achieved would have been a 15 minute "hustle" stop the 2nd time, but still would've charged, because hey why not? I'll be generous and suggest the Porsche system would've saved 20 minutes in total charging time, but still would've ended up with 2 stops for this segment - I look forward to them rolling it out in locations where I can actually use them while traveling.

have fun all!!

daveo4porsche

Ashland to Salem to Portland (Tigard) - 1 fast charging stop today - 30 minutes beverage/bathroom stop mid morning (left hotel @ 100%) - needed to top off battery to make it all the way to Portland - 3 hour stop in Salem for college campus tour - Tesla superchargers 0.3 miles from hotel - arrived and hotel - dumped the car at the superchargers - did dinner/pool/rest at hotel while car charged - will get up tomorrow morning for Portland college campus tour - will leave Thursday to head back to San Jose area - reconsidering our itinerary given all the smoke from southern Oregon wildfires - the 1 stop today was no big deal and wasn't really an imposition. Will top off car with supercharger each night for the next 3 days - will probably be less than 20 min and again no imposition.

total charging time while on the road so far has been 95 minutes across the past 2 days - but given overlap with food/bathroom/bio breaks total travel time for EV vs. ICE has been mostly about the same given that I'm planning the stops to overlap with other travel activities.

updates for next couple of days will be un-eventful! but come Thursday we might have a whole new plan for going back south to minimize our exposure to the wildfire smoke - will need to do some minimal planning for the return trip - stay tuned.

groundhog

Great real world review thanks for making the effort.

Some questions? what proportion of the charging could be attributed to renewables? As I understand it (in Oregon) about 47% of the juice is from fossil fuels and about 40% from hydro - would that be correct? Given that EVs account for around 1.2% of vehicles sold in 2017, what would the travel situation be like if that number was 10% or 20% and what would the impact be on the national grid?

Relatively conservative projections indicate that going forward, when >50% of vehicles are EVs (by about 2050), an additional 15 to 25% extra generation capacity will have to be found. Food for thought.

daveo4porsche

daveo4porsche

daveo4porsche

green line is "actual" battery usage so far - grey line is estimated/ideal - vertical axis is battery percentage - horizontal is distance

daveo4porsche

summary so far:

682.3 miles driven
251.6 kWh consumed
average has been 369 wH/mile or 2.7 miles/kWh
direct cost for charging $0.00

itinerary so far

• left home at 100%
• charged at Corning Supercharger (40 minutes - ate lunch) 22% - 79% charge session - ~54 kWh charged - supercharger
• charged at Mt. Shasta Supercharger (25 minutes - beverage/ice cream/bio break) - 21% - 60% - ~39 kWh charged - supercharger
• charged to 100% at hotel in Ashland overnight 33% to 100% - ~67 kWh charged - L2 charger
• charged at Eugene/Springfield (30 minutes - beverage/bio break) - 36% - 70% - ~34 kWh charged - supercharger
• charged to 100% at Hotel in Portal (Tigard) using near by supercharger - time was greater than 60 minutes (but done while at hotel so no time impact on travel time - we had arrived at our destination) - 34% - 100% - ~66 kWh - supercharger
• my actual cost to charge so far $0.00
• run around Portland until Thursday - anticipated charging - limited miles - limited usage - overnight while idle at near by supercharger...no impact on travel time.
• zero (0) minutes spent waiting for an open charger due to congestion (so far)

Total time spent supercharging = 95 minutes across 2 days (3 stops while "traveling") - extra time spent charging vs. a gas car - I'll note 15 minutes extra travel time vs given that I'm charging during normal rest stops that would take longer than a fill up anyways - for purposes of my study I'm not counting charging done while "at destinations" - since the car is charging while it would be idle.

Estimated costs if I had to pay for supercharging- supercharger costs for a Model 3 owner (@ $0.26/kwh) 54 + 39 + 34 + 66 = 193 kWh @ $0.26 = $50.18
miles driven is 682.3 = so cost per mile would've been $0.07/mile for a Model 3 owner (actually less cause the Model 3 gets better range per kWh than my Model X)
Estimated gas costs at 28 mpg (hwy driving) = 682 / 28 = 24 gallons of gas @ $3.20 gallon = $78.60 or $0.11/mile - but there would've probably only been one stop for the gas car at this point.

conclusion - for a normal road trip - I'm not feeling penalized on time for supercharging - but there is NO way an EV can iron-butt straight through like a gas car!!! But for my typical family road trip with reasonable stops every 3 or 4 hours the actual travel time isn't that different.

daveo4porsche

interesting notes (at least to me)

all during the trip we are using plug-share to find chargers other than Tesla superchargers - while the Tesla superchargers will meet all our needs there are vast quantities of L2 and other fast charging solutions (chademo) all along the route - turns out Salem OR is pretty well covered with EV chargers - and lo and behold there was a fast-DC Chademo charging right across the street from the Willamette University at the state capital - we were going to be stuck at Willamette during the campus tour/talk so might as well charge the car while it's idle (no harm no foul)

well we could not use the Fast DC charger (one an only one) because the cord wasn't long enough - it was a Nissan Chademo charger and it's designed to plug in to the front of a Nissan Leaf - and the street parking is "head into the curb" - the Chademo (thick and heavy) cord is long enough to reach the front of a Nissan Leaf - but no where near long enough to reach the back of a Model X (where the charger port is on a Tesla) - I could've backed in - but the traffic patterns (busy street) and angled head in spots simply made that impractical so I skipped it…

this whole fast charging thing can and does work, but it's still requires a bit more effort than I think the average person is willing to tolerate - and the competing standards and unreliability (non Tesla charging networks - charge point and EVGo are pretty good - others not so much) of charging solutions still makes it a bit more of a minefield than I would like or think most people will tolerate. At the end of the day we didn't need to charge in Salem, but the car was idle for 3-4 hours and it would've been a great time to top off the battery just because…

given that I only do one or two road trips a year (98% of driving is single day commuter range) - I'm willing to deal with some minor planning requirements for the road trip which is infrequent - I like driving the EV's so much better than an ICE - and the Tesla auto-pilot is a joy on the long 2-3 hour stretches of just doing some highway driving - and the view of the scenery through the Tesla Model's X's vast helicopter windshield makes the trip so enjoyable.

Internesting note: Temperatures have been hovering in the high 90's and low 100's although the trip - we have driven past many many ICE's overheated on the side of the road. Driving an EV means that for any routine human habitable temperatures there is virtually no chance of an overheating problem - there is however additional demand on the battery as the car's electrical based cooling system is working to cool both the passengers and the battery - so there is some reduced range due to the higher electrical loads - loads on the battery discharge rate of 36x wH/mile are minimal and cause limited internal heating of the battery - steady state power loads offer minimal discharge thermal increases…so the battery is largely in go with the flow mode…

daveo4porsche

ran around Portland all day - charged while car was idle at L2 charger near hotel (found one!) - 11 kWh added in 2 hours (slow) - charged at supercharger during dinner - charged to 90% - no imposition since car would've been sitting idle in parking lot during dinner anyways...

tomorrow more running around Portland.

we've changed our plans - going to go down the Oregon coast to avoid wild fire smoke - superchargers look to be good all the way down to Eureka, CA - should be one or two stops a day like normal - no big deal - will update summary stats tomorrow evening - no charging time accumulated today - since all charging was done while car was idle - no charging while "on the road" - just driving today - went to see a waterfall on Hwy 84 east of Portland today!

$0.00 for charging so far (including today).

daveo4porsche

update: bounced around Portland all day Wed. - used 20% battery - topped off at night as usual at the end of the day using near by supercharger - visited Reed college Thursday morning - nice school seems like a potential good choice for my kids - we'll see if they can muster the scores to get in - drove to Astoria, OR - where we're spending the night - arrived in Astoria with 54% battery - tried to use a local Chademo charger ($7.50) once again thwarted by unreliable flaky 3rd party networks (just like the one Porsche is going to rely on) - charger couldn't be remotely activated or rebooted - customer service put in a trouble ticket - said it will be fixed in 3-5 days - ROFL

no problem I'll use the Tesla supercharger tomorrow morning on the way south on 101 from Astoria - we'll be heading down to Eureka tomorrow - will stop in Seaside OR, Bandon OR, and Crescent City - it will be a 3 charger day (not my favorite) so there will be some travel delay - at least one of those stops will _NOT_ overlap with a. normal food/rest stop - so I anticipate a travel delay that can't be hidden tomorrow - we'll probably stop for 40 min. to charge - which will not overlap with a "normal" stop - so yeah traveling with EV will cause a 40 min inconvenience for tomorrow (it wouldn't have been necessary if the Chademo in Astoria worked - oh well) - I won't be stranded - just inconvenienced …

My experience with Tesla superchargers - 99.9% reliable - congestion is the _ONLY_ potential problem
My experience with non-Tesla chargers - not good - often congested (1 or 2 stalls) and if there is a problem a lack of urgency to resolve the problem…and often times physically broken, and incompetent customer service staff when working to resolve the issue...

my fear for Porsche by not taking control of their network is it will be more like the non-Tesla charging network, and less like the Tesla charging network. I'll post stats tomorrow (distance and kWh) -

Summary so far:

• Sunday 2 fast charging stops - and overnight @ hotel - San Jose to Ashland
• Monday 1 fast charging stop - end of day charge to 100% @ near by Tesla supercharger - one attempted Chademo session - thwarted by poor design for actual vehicle access - Ashland to Salem to Portland
• Tuesday no charging stops during the day (5x% battery used) - end of day charge to 100% @ near by Tesla supercharger - Portland all day - trip to waterfall east of Portland scenic drive on Hwy 30
• Wed. no charging stops during the day (15-20% battery used) - end of day charge to 100% @ near by Tesla supercharger - Portland all day - commuter usage pattern - low miles, car was mostly idle all day.
• Thursday no charging stops during the day - lost 30 min. attempting to use a Chademo charger near hotel - no joy - - morning commuter usage pattern - then drove to Astoria - car will overnight @ 51% - I could use a L2 charger overnight - but none close to hotel - so I'll use supercharger for 15 min. tomorrow morning on way out of town.

Plan for next two days

• Friday - plan: drive to Eureka - stop at the dunes to do some ATV'ing with ICE ATV's - likely 3 supercharger day (2 Oregon, and Crecent City CA) - and over night in Eureka (charge to 100% at supercharger in Eureka while car is idle)
• Saturday: drive home to San Jose on saturday - one Supercharger stop (Petaluma) - then home.

Charging network Score so Far

• Tesla Destination charging network @ hotel - 1 attempt 1 success - 100% reliability - no delay's due to congestion
• Tesla Supercharger network - 6 attempts 6 success - 100% reliability - no congestion delays
• 3rd party Chademo Network - 2 attempts 0 success - 0% reliability

Total charging sessions 7 - 3 while "driving/traveling" between point a & b - and 4 end of day charging sessions while car was idle for the night…travel charging time 95 minutes…15 min estimated EV penalty on actual travel time - typical end of day charging session is 40-60 minutes - but done while car is "idle" not while traveling.

Charging costs so far $0.00 - attempted a $7.50 cost charging sessions, but will be refunded because their network sucks

pushing 1000 miles so far on trip overall - consumed more than 335 kWh in driving - estimated: 35.7 gallons of gas @ 28 mpg estimated - estimated two gas station fill ups for the same trip so far - much more convenient than the EV charging stops no question - but I'm still ok with it - given the infrequency of road trip usage vs. the rest of the year - and I still prefer to drive the EV over any of the SUV gas choices I would have access to (SUV for family road trip given people and cargo). I'm still finding the Model X a real joy to drive (autopilot is da'bomb on the longer sections of the trip).

Friday will be at least 3 Tesla supercharger stops on the way to Eureka…awkward spacing will require more stops than strictly necessary - by next year same trip should be easier and there will be twice as many Tesla superchargers along the route.

I fear the Porsche charging network for reliability, congestion…faster charging times won't matter if they are congested and unreliable.

tomhartzell

Another great report, Dave -- thanks! Your posts should be required reading for the Porsche corporate folks chartered with designing Porsche's recharging network, as well as those folks negotiating with the recharging partners Porsche has selected. I'm hoping the Taycan can be recharged at Tesla's network if needed (for a fee) -- and that the other recharging service providers improve their collective quality soon.