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Boxster Spyder -- Soft Brake Pedal

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Old 09-30-2012, 07:29 PM
  #46  
the_vetman
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Originally Posted by orthojoe
The problem is the pedal is NOT hard, and the pedal travels down WAAAY below the gas pedal, so the pedal height disparity is too much and you can't grab the throttle without letting up on the brakes. When you're lightfooting it on the street, a GT3 style brake pedal might make it a little be tougher. On the track it's perfect.

Where? Did you post it here? I missed it. Link, please.
Joe, you may have a point there. I do a lot of threshold braking at the end of long straights. I go deep(er) into the braking zone then slam on the brakes to the point of almost setting ABS off. As I'm downshifting and HT'ing through this, it's been noticed that I tend to let the pressure off of the brake as I stab the gas pedal.... I have to make a conscious effort to not do this (not always easy to do!!). Hmm... maybe I do need a GT3 MC after all.

987.2 FVD Brombacher exhaust clips: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear....1.Q-seh0Uq3C0

I had to post you a link because I was having technical difficulties with posting mine... I'll go delete the OT info from the other thread.

Last edited by the_vetman; 09-30-2012 at 10:51 PM.
Old 09-30-2012, 09:13 PM
  #47  
orthojoe
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Originally Posted by stevecolletti
a mushy pedal does not inspire confidence to many of us who grew up with cars where a mushy pedal was the first sign of overheating, leaking or otherwise failing brakes.
+1

Originally Posted by zellamsee
I just checked my Spyder and the part number on the booster is different! 987.355.025.00. Weird. I wonder if we are narrowing in on the problem, and a possible solution.
Hmm... that IS interesting. I wonder why brake booster part numbers are all over the place....

Originally Posted by the_vetman
it's been noticed that I tend to let the pressure off of the brake as I stab the gas pedal.... I have to make a conscious effort to not do this (not always easy to do!!). Hmm... maybe I do need a GT3 MC after all.
Yup, that's the problem. Sure, I can heel toe with a mushy/long travel brake pedal no problem, but not without letting my braking force and lap times suffer.

987.2 FVD Brombacher exhaust clips: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear....1.Q-seh0Uq3C0

I had to post you a link because I was have technical difficulties with posting mine... I'll go delete the OT info from the other thread.
Uhh.. I was hoping for clips of the exhaust on YOUR car?

Last edited by orthojoe; 09-30-2012 at 11:49 PM.
Old 09-30-2012, 11:00 PM
  #48  
the_vetman
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Originally Posted by orthojoe
Yup, that's the problem. Sure, I can heel toe with a mushy/long travel brake pedal no problem, but my braking force and lap times suffer.
Ah, now I see what you've meant in the past. I agree with you there.

Originally Posted by orthojoe
Uhh.. I was hoping for clips of the exhaust on YOUR car?
Oh.... sorry, bro... I deleted my video because it wouldn't upload onto youtube. I then emailed it to myself, but there was no sound... In case you're thinking 'shoot another video', the Spyder is at my indy having the FVD switched out with Fabspeed race. Sorry...

If you really wanted to hear the FVD on a Spyder, I'll call tomorrow AM to see if they already changed the exhaust (it's there for other mods as well). When I let her rip, it sounded fairly loud... no idea if it'll pass LS.
Old 09-30-2012, 11:55 PM
  #49  
orthojoe
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Originally Posted by the_vetman
Ah, now I see what you've meant in the past. I agree with you there.
LOL. I guess I should clarify since I assumed everyone wants faster lap times, not just the ability to heel toe. If you want to be able to brake hard, late, AND be able to heel toe, the mushy brake pedal sucks. You have to be very precise with your wording on the internet.

Oh.... sorry, bro... I deleted my video because it wouldn't upload onto youtube. I then emailed it to myself, but there was no sound... In case you're thinking 'shoot another video', the Spyder is at my indy having the FVD switched out with Fabspeed race. Sorry...

If you really wanted to hear the FVD on a Spyder, I'll call tomorrow AM to see if they already changed the exhaust (it's there for other mods as well). When I let her rip, it sounded fairly loud... no idea if it'll pass LS.
Doh! Don't worry about it. Not a big deal.
Old 10-01-2012, 12:11 AM
  #50  
orthojoe
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Originally Posted by zellamsee
I just checked my Spyder and the part number on the booster is different! 987.355.025.00. Weird. I wonder if we are narrowing in on the problem, and a possible solution.
If you look at the PET page I posted, the brake booster part numbers are different between a standard spyder and a PCCB equipped spyder. Therefore, you and I should have different part numbers. However, neither of our part numbers match up to what is listed it the PET catalog: 987 355 923 00 (red brakes) 996 355 923 00 (PCCBs)

You have: 987 355 025 00 PET says it should be 987 355 923 00
I have: 997 355 025 11 PET says it should be 996 355 923 00

I have an idea:
Everybody post up the part number listed on your brake booster, what year/model car, what kind of brakes you have, and whether you like your brake pedal or not

Here is where you look for the part number:
Old 10-01-2012, 12:13 AM
  #51  
khooni
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Originally Posted by the_vetman
Joe, you may have a point there. I do a lot of threshold braking at the end of long straights. I go deep(er) into the braking zone then slam on the brakes to the point of almost setting ABS off. As I'm downshifting and HT'ing through this, it's been noticed that I tend to let the pressure off of the brake as I stab the gas pedal.... I have to make a conscious effort to not do this (not always easy to do!!). Hmm... maybe I do need a GT3 MC after all.

.

That's exactly what i do as well. Excepted that, on the straights ,delivering the constant pressure isn't a problem for me at all while H&Ting. But, where it matters is..

As i turn in, the pressure on the brake pedal starts to come off and this is where I find a long travel beneficial to me. Now I am far from a good driver, but in feeling the grip, this extra amount of travel allows me to generate maximum cornering force without understeering. This works with my PCCB equipped spyder as well so it works for me. To me, having a longer brake pedal is akin to having a longer throttle (ie I find sport mode unproductive). In both cases, I drive better with it (long).

I think there are plenty of sports cars with sport mode type throttle and short distance brake pedals eg audis and bmws. I prefer MB AMGs for that reason.

I respectfully disagree that the holy grail of a brake pedal is short and hard.
Old 10-01-2012, 01:06 AM
  #52  
orthojoe
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Originally Posted by khooni
I respectfully disagree that the holy grail of a brake pedal is short and hard.
From your standpoint, that may be, based on your driving style. If it works for you, that's fantastic. However, you have to be wondering why a track orientated car like the GT3 and many others have a rock solid brake pedal with short travel. Again, I will challenge you that your brothers GT3RS either had air in the lines or your memory does not serve you correctly.

BTW, when you get a chance, post up the part number for your brake booster.
Old 10-02-2012, 02:29 PM
  #53  
orthojoe
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Originally Posted by orthojoe
I have an idea:
Everybody post up the part number listed on your brake booster, what year/model car, what kind of brakes you have, and whether you like your brake pedal or not
Nobody? I'm hearing crickets again..
Old 10-02-2012, 03:00 PM
  #54  
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i have to wait for the wkn. Front luggage compartment right? After removing the battery cover, can I see it?
Old 10-02-2012, 04:00 PM
  #55  
orthojoe
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just remove the cover over the brake fluid reservoir and you should be able to see it.
Old 10-02-2012, 05:29 PM
  #56  
stevecolletti
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Joe,
I've emailed Alex. Worst case, you can check it yourself when you are there.
Old 10-02-2012, 05:38 PM
  #57  
orthojoe
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Originally Posted by stevecolletti
Joe,
I've emailed Alex. Worst case, you can check it yourself when you are there.
I'll check it out myself when I'm there next week. Thanks, Steve!
Old 10-02-2012, 08:04 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by orthojoe
Nobody? I'm hearing crickets again..
Name:  spyder master cylinder.jpg
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Here you go Joe. 2011 with steel brakes. I like the brakes just fine but largely due to the great initial bite that track pads provide. I can reach threshold braking within the first 1/2 of brake pedal travel. If the pedal travel starts getting longer or mushier, I bleed the brakes.

zellamsee - when you tested my brake pedal feel at the dealership, it was after 3 days at Laguna and due for a bleed. It's usually firmer than what you felt.

Last edited by bensf; 10-02-2012 at 08:53 PM.
Old 10-02-2012, 10:32 PM
  #59  
orthojoe
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Originally Posted by bensf
Here you go Joe. 2011 with steel brakes. I like the brakes just fine but largely due to the great initial bite that track pads provide. I can reach threshold braking within the first 1/2 of brake pedal travel. If the pedal travel starts getting longer or mushier, I bleed the brakes.

zellamsee - when you tested my brake pedal feel at the dealership, it was after 3 days at Laguna and due for a bleed. It's usually firmer than what you felt.
thanks, Ben. So it looks like you and zellamsee have the same brake booster part number. I'll bet all the steel brake guys have the 987.355.025.00 part number, while all the pccb guys have 997.355.025.11. I'll be that Steve, Khooni, and I have the same brake booster part numbers. That makes sense, since PET specifies a different brake booster if you have PCCBs. Unfortunately, we're no closer to a solution....

Zellamsee: what did you think of Ben's brakes compared to yours?
Old 10-03-2012, 02:41 AM
  #60  
zellamsee
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Hi guys -- yes, Ben's brake pedal was pretty mushy, and if I remember correctly, the car wasn't even powered up!! It felt similar to mine. At the dealership this past weekend, a good buddy had his Cayman R there for service too. His pedal was mushy just like mine (he had tracked earlier this year). We also tested a "regular" used Cayman out on the lot -- same mushy pedal. By the way, all three cars (my Spyder, my buddy's Cayman R and the "regular" used Cayman on the lot) do not have PCCBs and all have the same exact booster (i.e., all have the same part number I listed in my earlier post). The second bleeding by my dealer helped a bit -- it is not as mushy as it was, and the brake pedal no longer travels past the gas pedal. But, it is still too mushy for my taste, and certainly is not as firm as I remember (prior to my recent track days).


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