Z356

"Porsche’s chief of mid-engined cars, Hans-Jürgen Wöhler, told Autocar that the extreme Porsche Cayman R offers a bigger dynamic advantage over the Cayman S than what the Boxster Spyder has over the Boxster S. Wöhler explained that due to the hard-top body’s rigidity, Porsche was able to push the Cayman’s chassis more than the Boxster’s in this lighter variant. Wöhler said that the two Caymans differ when it comes to the stiffness of the bodyshell of the fixed roof."

"He said that the Cayman R’s chassis can “fulfill 100% of its potential.” On the other hand, the Boxster Spyder can only achieve about 90%. He added that the Cayman R features a special set-up of spring rates [5 to 10% stiffer], shock absorbers and torsion bar that is exclusive to this car. In addition, it is lower by 20mm."

"Set to go on sale this February, the Cayman R is about £5000 more expensive than the Cayman S. Porsche predicts that it will be able to sell one R for every five S variants. However, it believes that the take-up might be higher in the UK."

http://www.4wheelsnews.com/porsche-l...-other-models/

Pay attention to this part. The Cayman R's shock absorbers and torsion bar will be exclusive to this car (the Cayman R), so not the same as those found on the Spyder. The spring rates will probably NOT be exactly like those on the Spyder, although it is not perfectly clear to what model he was comparing them (Cayman S or Spyder?) when Wöhler said they would be 5 to 10% stiffer on the Cayman R. The 20mm lower height is the same as for the Spyder.

The statement that the Cayman R "fullfill 100% of its potential" for this chassis vs 90% for the Spyder is a subjective evaluation. But since those words are coming from the engineer in charge of chassis development for the 987 platform, it speaks volumes about what Porsche expects from the Cayman R, especially in comparison to the already much praised & heralded Spyder. The latter is considered by the motoring press as one of the best handling cars in the world! For those naysayers of the just announced Cayman R who believed this was only a cosmetic exercise from the parts bin, please wait until the track & driving test results come in before you write off this model. It may indeed surprise us all. z356

n4v4nod

I too have zero doubts that the R will out handle my Spyder.

I'm not going to lie, as a design director appearance is a factor. Other than decals and a special green color, the R is no different than the a Sport Design Package Cayman S (visually). Put it this way, do you think the Spyder would have as much appeal if they just picked a unique color and married it to the Sport Design Package Boxster? The Spyder has unique body work (Rear Hatch, Convertible Top, Front Intakes with LEDs and Side Intakes). The combo of handling and appearance make the package truly desirable. This is all subjective and my opinion... But keep in mind if the Spyder didn't exist... I would have bought a R But thank god the it does! Because I LOVE IT!

Marine Blue

I agree that we should wait for the be road tested and compared before passing judgement.

But do agree with Cayman that Porsche really did an outstanding job differentiating the Spyder from the Boxster S or other Boxster variants. Because of the changes in front bumper and engine cover it won't be easy to replicate the car on a Boxster S without spending some serious money.

The Cayman R can be replicated easily by selecting the Sport Design Package, sport bucket seats, updgrading the suspension and revised engine management.....unless of course you're willing to choose one of the limited color options. If I were in the market for a Cayman I would choose the R since it will still cost less than choosing the Cayman S with sport design package but I might also consider buying a lightly used one and modifying it.

wbgordon

No surprise here. Take the same car and compare handling with hardtop to ragtop, the hardtop usually comes out on top. In the case of Cayman R vs. Spyder, 10 percent is so infinitesimally small, I have to wonder who the heck will be able to tell the difference beyond those who seriously, seriously track the cars. Won't be me.

Bottom line: They're both excellent cars. You choose which, I think, based more on subjective criteria such as Z356 alluded to.

Z356

No, Hans-Jurgen Wöhler is not telling you the Cayman R is 10% better, or 10% more rigid or 10% more of anything in reality. Read again what Wöhler actually said. The Cayman R fulfills 100% of its (chassis/suspension) potential. This is not a mathematical formula for us to determine the exact changes Porsche made to the Cayman R vs Spyder! It is a way for Wöhler to express a subjective evaluation, as the Porsche engineer in charge of chassis development for the 987 platform, of the Cayman R's realized potential vs the Spyder's. Technically, the Cayman R could have 5%/10% stiffer spring rates, 30% different shock valving, 40% different torsion bar specifications, whatever, from those of a Spyder! And the overall Cayman R chassis rigidity might be 50, 80 or 100 percent more than that of the open Spyder! But he is not expressing an actual measurement of these changes when he says 100% vs 90%. What Wöhler is simply saying is that whatever the characteristics of the Cayman R are in their totality, they make a big difference vs the Spyder, enough for him to express himself in terms of '100% fulfillment' of the 987 chassis potential!

The Autocar article quoted by 4wheelsnews is just badly written and lends itself to this sort of confusion. But look at it this way. Wöhler is not really telling you (yet) as much as you think...or as much as we really want to know. Hopefully, after the Cayman R is test driven by all, even you or me might be able to tell the difference in handling versus the already great Spyder. z356

pcw

Those of us that have a Spyder should know just like with anything, improvements will always be made from year to year. If the Cayman R out performs the Spyder, that's fine, as small as the performs gain may be. The one thing the Cayman R will never have is the looks of the Spyder. If you go for looks/performance and not hard up about practicality, IMO the Spyder wins hands down. I feel the Spyder is the best that the 987 has to offer in the current platform.

Those of us that jumped on the Spyder right from the beginning took a chance, not being able to test drive and no reviews and for me not even seeing it in person. I must say my decision was mostly based on looks. For all the rave reviews to follow was just icing on the cake

pcw

Marine Blue

If any of you Spyder owners plan on upgrading to a Cayman let me know, I will be in the market for a Spyder come April of 2011. Must have MT and Sport Buckets.

savyboy

Which I think quite succinctly sums the Spyder/R debate: If the aesthetics of the (re)design are not emotionally provoking, you damn sure better make it technically interesting Spyder has both: new looks and a LOT of technology tweaks.

Spring rates are different between Carrera/Carrera S/Carrera 4S and of course there is no six month build up of press leaks and hush-hush BS leading to a major auto show introduction of each models tweaks?

My friend Z356, it sounds like you are now considering the R over the Spyder for your purchase? Our passionate discussion among enthusiasts aside...Tough choice! Both would be awesome for a "Driver's" car. I can't imagine being unhappy with either choice and have always loved the Cayman platform. My primary beef is with Porsche marketing department.

Hans-Jurgen Wohler (coolest name ever) is simply being trotted out to try and salvage the disaster of an introduction created by marketing.

Z356

Savyboy - I am indeed considering the R, but I have no criticism of the Spyder. I do agree with you that this introduction was badly handled by Porsche. And Hans-Jurgen should have been trotted out on December 17th at the LA Auto Show, not now, to lead the presentation of the Cayman R...not the inarticulate PAG CEO Matthias Mueller, who has no charisma whatsoever and didn't talk the relevant points of what is going to make the Cayman R a terrific car!

We will soon know what the Cayman R can do. From Feb 21st to Feb 28th, 2011, Porsche will be hosting driving events for the world's motoring press somewhere in the world (warm climate place, I am sure!). And I think we will see some exciting new options introduced sometime during MY2012 for both Cayman R and Boxster Spyder, which might include Paint to Sample and Interior Color Leather to Sample! We might finally be able to see that Riviera Blue Spyder after all!

I am now leaving for Marin County where I will meet Zellamsee since he has promised me a ride in his wonderful silver/black Spyder! z356

n4v4nod

If that is true, I might sell my current Spyder and buy another! I want to order a color that isn't available. It's an Audi color actually... Suzuka Grey! I did an exclusive order on my TTS and it was amazing! Would look awesome on the Spyder! My wife on the other hand won't be too happy or understand why I would do such a thing.

Marine Blue

Wow I do hope you're right about the paint to sample. With execption to the color I can already order one exactly how I want it. But a custom exterior color and maybe a custom interior color would be awesome. I have no problem waiting a year to get what I really want.

I just wish Porsche would confirm to the dealers that this is really going to be availble. It's not like there's much inventory left to sell on the Spyders.

Z356

Suzuka is a great color. I am also partial to Solar Orange in the Audi color range. The issue with P-T-S on a Boxster Spyder or Cayman R, when they allow it, is going to be pricing. Currently, it is $5,500 on the 911. And the lead time for production is six months. But I think it will be great to see more color choices on these two models! z356

n4v4nod

Solar is great too! I think we can count on it being the same price of $5500. When I did it on my Audi it was $2500 for any color, now it's $2500 for any Audi color and $5000 for paint to sample. As for the wait... No biggy. I waited 7 months to get mine.

What I love about suzuka is that it changes in different light...
Under the sun:

In the Garage:

Light Cloud Cover:

Comparison to white:


I sent a message to my sales guy and he said he has no reason to think the Spyder won't run into 2012, but the regional area Porsche rep is in town this week and he'll check on the Paint to Sample then.

pcw

For me, I'm really not sure what Porsche could come up with that would make me want to sell my Spyder. My resources are limited, according to my wife I would love a GT3RS or a GT2 but since I only buy new, that's pretty much out of the question. I have been bitten by the Porsche bug, perhaps vintage will be the direction I will go when I get the inch again, but plan on holding on to the Spyder for a long time.

I have a feeling with all the new requirements the government is/will starting to impose, you will start to see the 80's and 90's all over again. Those 2 decades were dismal for performance cars. Hybrids/Electric are the way of the future and though they may have some interesting performance characteristics. I had a Tesla drive pass me the other day while I was out walking, very fast acceleration, but total silence as it flew by. I realize then that the sweet exhaust sounds that I grew up on and that remind me of great times with my Dad and Pop Pop will be lost forever.

pcw

batty

Talked to the sales manager at my local dealership yesterday and he confirmed they had secured two Cayman R allocations. When i asked him about future Spyder allocations he shrugged and said he had none for the foreseeable future and didn't know if he would see anymore.

While PTS Spyders would be very, VERY cool, I wouldn't count on it.