Mike_K

I'll give the question and then an explanation below for those that want to make fun of me in addition to answering the question. I'm aware that you can use mileage stoppers and that you can adjust mileage on the odometer. What I'm confused about is whether or not you can change mileage in the DME or if the DME will always report accurate mileage.

The unbelievable setup: Car says it has 89,000 miles. Title and Carfax say 300,000+.

To be clear, this is a Panamera but the Panamera section seems dead and I get the feeling you guys are fighting odometer rollbacks more than the typical Panny owner. I bought a 2011 Panamera a couple weeks ago that was sold as having 88,000 miles on it. I understand I'm going to get roasted for this and I'll take my beating... I didn't bother looking at the mileage on the title. Mostly because it was believable mileage so I never even thought to consider it would be higher.

Today I went to register the car and I noticed the title says "308,xxx" miles on it. I assume someone must have fat fingered this so I quickly scramble to get the Carfax that I also didn't buy before purchasing the car because clearly I'm not the kind of person that likes to make sound decisions. To my surprise, the carfax shows 308,000 miles as of the last time the car was sold in 2018. Not only that, it had several services in between 2011 and 2018 that were commensurate with the miles. It's not like it goes from 80,000 to 300,000. It goes from 60k to 130k to 200k, etc spread out over several years. All the services are basic and all are performed at Porsche dealers. An oil change here, inspection there... recommended maintenance.

Now here's where things get spicy: the car does not have 300,000+ miles of wear on it. I don't want to sound naive. I know to amass this much mileage it would be mostly highway and that those are easier miles but you're still living in and interacting with the surfaces of this vehicle during those 300,000 miles and, well... either Porsche makes the best car ever or the car doesn't have 300,000 miles on it. Other than a couple failing air struts and a broken front grill, the car is pretty flawless. It doesn't even have door dings. The engine pulls strong, doesn't burn anything, doesn't run hot, doesn't make any noises... PDK shifts great. 2-3 in sport+ is kick you in the rear hard but apparently that's normal. No bearing noises, no worn diff noises, nothing. It's just... perfect. To the point where if it has 300,000 miles on it I'm not even going to be mad because I mean, wow.

So I look online and see how it's apparently easy to change the odometer on these. I'm expecting to read the DME and find the true mileage there. Instead I see the same mileage as the odometer (well, 3 miles off). I can see when the DME was last programmed (2016) and when it was originally flashed (2011) but the mileage change wasn't reported to Carfax until 2020. The car has been posting regular smog checks to Carfax since the mileage changed.

So the question of the day: can you change the mileage in the DME and the Odometer? Does one get mileage from the other? Is there anywhere else on the car I can pull mileage from or even engine hours?

Your help in solving this mystery would be greatly appreciated. I have to know if this car has 300k on it.

VII7

Well if you have several entries of car going from 80k to 300k miles I think the millage is 300k.
​​​​​​I have not heard of a millage alteration that would also fix the DME but I guess that's the answer vs multiple dealers and smog check stations reporting incorrect congruent incorrect high millage for years.

VII7

Also check your VINs
Do all VINs match?

Mike_K

That was my other thought but the features all match and the car has features that would be pretty rare on a V6, like Burmester, PDCC, PASM and PTV.

That’s my only other explanation though.

Mike_K

My thought as well but I was surprised to see the DME match the odometer and the car doesn’t have 300k worth of wear. We’re in the realm of timing chains, differentials, water pumps, etc. All of these components appear to be original and untouched.

Not to mention the physical wear which would be considered clean for 88,000 miles and entirely
unbelievable for 300k.

asellus

Two possibilities:

1) The DME, cluster, TCU, and any other modules that store mileage were swapped in from a low mile car. That 3 mile discrepancy could easily have been the person testing to see if swapping the cluster would overwrite the DME (or vice versa) before replacing all the other modules.
2) Someone figured out how to rewrite mileage on all the modules

The first option is much easier, as it's just disabling antitheft. I believe any bootleg PIWIS can do that.

The second option is probably a high level Porsche operation only involving the folks who rebuild and refurbish parts. Y'know, the place they send the PDKs to to get "rebuilt" and resold as remans. There's gotta be a mileage setting procedure for these modules in that case. It exists for other cars, so I couldn't see why VAG would opt out of doing it too.

Unless this is some kind of bizarre Smart ForTwo odometer issue where the mileage just goes bonkers when you plug in an OBD scanner, someone at some point did a very big illegal.

Mike_K

Number 1 seems like a lot of hassle and money spent to maybe fix a problem and get some more money for the car.

Number 2 seems more believable but again what’s the long game? You’ll get flagged with a Carfax and the title had 308,000 miles listed on it. That’s a hard fib to explain.

The bizarre seems like the simplest explanation to me. Like someone fudged high mileage numbers for an IRS reimbursement. Because if the alternative is true, and this car actually had 308,000 miles in 2018… it’s had an additional 40k put on in the last four years. So that means it’s sitting at 350k right now. It should be sitting in a museum if that’s the case. Every manufacturer should be taking lessons from Porsche.

On a side note, is there an easy way to see if anti theft has been disabled?

Mike_K

Just checked the TCU and that also reports same mileage.

Is there an engine run time on these cars?

asellus

Yes the dme should show that as part of the over rev report at least

Indyxc

Not sure on the Panemra, but on the 991 platform with my PIWIS Exploring, the operating hours and mileage is stored on multiple modules.

Of the top of my head the PDK, DME, and gateway mileage store mileage and hours. Gage cluster, PCM, others store operating hours. Some modules are operarting when the engine isn't on, some only when the engine is on so there might be some slight differences.

I am not a PIWIS expert, but there is no easy pull down menu to modify miles.

LOl to your comment, and taking this sitatuons lighly hearted.

justabout

In 300,000 miles I would expect to see abrasion of headlight housings and running lights. Wheel spokes would have abrasion too. Not sure how you can verify if those pieces are original.

Jim M.

I would be upset if the selling dealer advertised this car as having 88K miles when in fact it has 308-350K miles. I would also be asking for an additional reduction in the selling price. I think you have the dealer over a barrel as a possible federal law breaker. Certainly worth your time and effort to discuss this with the selling dealer.

Mike_K

This was a Facebook marketplace car that the guy couldn't smog and it was sitting on its air suspension bump stops. I get the feeling he didn't know. He didn't make any effort to hide it. I just didn't look at the title. This is all on me.

Mike_K

I'm sure it's similar if not identical cross-platform. I picked the 991 forum since it's a similar vintage platform and because I suspect you guys actually have some experience with people trying to roll back odometers. I'll check and see what other modules are reporting.

subaru335i

This is kind of wild and I almost agree that someone maybe was fudging mileage for IRS reimbursment, crazier things have happened and if all the modules match the 88k miles and the car condition indicates the same I would tend to believe my eyes over the carfax but at the same time usually those smog places check the odometer themselves and put the number in so seems hard to fudge that.

Either way, condition is really all thats important right now but when you go to sell you will likely have troubles. Id probably keep it and drive it till the wheels fall off or you will have to have a real low price when you go to sell it.

I find it really hard to believe someone could have over 300k miles on a car and it not looks noticably worn out in certain areas (like others mentioned the headlights and paint and interior).

I have a Honda S2000 with 200k miles on it and the original windshield is all pitted and the interior while still clean, definitely shows the amount of wear I would expect with the miles.