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1991 911 Tiptronic to Manual Swap Questions/Feedback
Hello! New to the forum, but not to Porsches, I've had an 83 928 for a while and I just recently purchased my absolute dream car, a 1991 911 C2 Targa. It is currently a Tiptronic and I say currently because I am getting parts together to 5-speed swap it over the winter. I have searched the forums and read basically every thread I can about this (especially NBL's fantastic instruction manual, what an amazing resource) but I am left with a few questions I'm hoping to get some feedback on from people who have done the 964 tip to manual conversion.
1) What would you roughly estimate the swap took you labor time wise?
2) Are there any gotchas or things you would do differently if you were to do the swap again?
3) Any simple must-dos while the engine is out of the car? Not trying to while you're in there myself to death but don't want to miss any obvious ones.
4) Is there any kind of aftermarket pedal box option? Or does anyone have any thoughts or insights on how or where I can find one? So far not much luck tracking one down.
Hugely appreciate any thoughts or input anyone can offer. Excited to be here in the 964 forum as an owner. Thanks!
I have collected all the parts to convert my 93 coupe to manual with the exception of the rear under tray. I have put about 14,000 miles on it over the past 2.5 years of ownership and will likely miss the tip on occasion. Like being in Seattle and Portland traffic. NBL's guide is great and has been very useful. A significant change to my conversion will not require welding of the shift rod guide as i am using a numeric shifter. This eliminates the need to remove the carpet and any sound deadening material. As it don't expect to ever sell this car it will also allow me to return it to a tiptronic if i so choose as everything is reversable with the exception of cutting the end off the fluid reservoir. I plan to keep the same speedometer by replacing the face and blowing out the trans cooler lines and capping them.
I sourced a pedal assembly form ebay.de. It was the better option when i was in the market. I am happy to discuss over the phone or email if you like. I hope to start and complete the conversion over the Christmas holiday.
Brad
I understand there is a difference in the pedal box between the years - I think in the roll pin configuration for the clutch pedal? I found it at one point but can no longer locate the info. I think, in eBay, there might even be 2 styles of clutch pedals themselves.
I have collected all the parts to convert my 93 coupe to manual with the exception of the rear under tray. I have put about 14,000 miles on it over the past 2.5 years of ownership and will likely miss the tip on occasion. Like being in Seattle and Portland traffic. NBL's guide is great and has been very useful. A significant change to my conversion will not require welding of the shift rod guide as i am using a numeric shifter. This eliminates the need to remove the carpet and any sound deadening material. As it don't expect to ever sell this car it will also allow me to return it to a tiptronic if i so choose as everything is reversable with the exception of cutting the end off the fluid reservoir. I plan to keep the same speedometer by replacing the face and blowing out the trans cooler lines and capping them.
I sourced a pedal assembly form ebay.de. It was the better option when i was in the market. I am happy to discuss over the phone or email if you like. I hope to start and complete the conversion over the Christmas holiday.
Brad
Thanks for all of the info Brad, I had never even heard of a numeric shifter until your post, will definitely have to consider that. How long did it take you to put all of the parts together? Have you made a choice about flywheel/clutch setup yet? Replacing the face of the speedometer is a great idea, have been going back and forth or whether I would rather live with the Tip lights being dead forever or having a different speedo. My car isn't exceptionally low mileage or anything (a little under 112k) but I would definitely like to keep correct speedo if possible. I had taken a quick look on Ebay.de for pedal assembly, I may have found ALMOST everything I need from one supplier though which would accelerate my swap timeline by quite a bit. Do you have any idea how long you expect the swap to take? I've been having a hard time wrapping my head around it. Would send you a PM with my email but still don't have the ability as a new user, not sure how long that lasts. -Tom
I understand there is a difference in the pedal box between the years - I think in the roll pin configuration for the clutch pedal? I found it at one point but can no longer locate the info. I think, in eBay, there might even be 2 styles of clutch pedals themselves.
Interesting, is that 964 vs 993 as far as the pedal assembly difference? How far are you into parts collection?
Great to hear you found my manual! I'm loving the fives peed, especially with the short shift golden rod.
To answer your questions:
1. Honestly, you can do it over the weekend. Two full days, if you have all the parts. The only things you'll need to do it in that time is a lift, or an easy way to get the engine out, and welding skills as you will need to weld in the gear lever support box into the transmission tunnel.
2. The manual I prepared will get you round most of the gotcha moments. The tricky one is when it won't start because you've forgotten to jump the tiptronic relay!! That took hours of head scratching. Also, peel back the carpet when welding and have someone on hand with an extinguisher when welding. You really only need about 6 decent welds of around 10 mm long to lock the shifter box into the tunnel, but it gets hot on the inside of the car.
3. Replace the accelerator cable. Clean the underside of the car, in the transmission runnel etc. You might not get in there again. And Def nately consider the numeric short shift linkage. I would have done that if it was around at the time I did mine.
4. Try LA dismantlers for the pedal box. I needed a RHD box as Im in New Zealand, so I found one in the UK. Took a while to find one. I'm not aware of an aftermarket pedal set up. Although, didn't Jonas from Islandworks have a different pedal box set up for his 964??
PM me anytime if you get stuck. Happy to talk over vidcon if you need any specific help.
Great to hear you found my manual! I'm loving the fives peed, especially with the short shift golden rod.
To answer your questions:
1. Honestly, you can do it over the weekend. Two full days, if you have all the parts. The only things you'll need to do it in that time is a lift, or an easy way to get the engine out, and welding skills as you will need to weld in the gear lever support box into the transmission tunnel.
2. The manual I prepared will get you round most of the gotcha moments. The tricky one is when it won't start because you've forgotten to jump the tiptronic relay!! That took hours of head scratching. Also, peel back the carpet when welding and have someone on hand with an extinguisher when welding. You really only need about 6 decent welds of around 10 mm long to lock the shifter box into the tunnel, but it gets hot on the inside of the car.
3. Replace the accelerator cable. Clean the underside of the car, in the transmission runnel etc. You might not get in there again. And Def nately consider the numeric short shift linkage. I would have done that if it was around at the time I did mine.
4. Try LA dismantlers for the pedal box. I needed a RHD box as Im in New Zealand, so I found one in the UK. Took a while to find one. I'm not aware of an aftermarket pedal set up. Although, didn't Jonas from Islandworks have a different pedal box set up for his 964??
PM me anytime if you get stuck. Happy to talk over vidcon if you need any specific help.
Nick
Thanks Nick!! I really appreciate your answers and your manual in general. I don't think I would be considering this without it. I got your PM and will definitely reach out if and when there is a big issue, I sincerely appreacite the offer.
I was wondering from reading your thread when you were doing the swap it sounded like you may have had some second thoughts about welding the shifter box and thought you might have been able to get away without it but then obviously in your manual it's presented as the way to go. Would you definitely recommend welding in the shifter box or do you think there is an alternative path without doing so? Thanks again!
Good question. Originally I was hoping I could do the conversion without welding the manual shifter box in, but that was because I couldn’t find much information about how to do the conversion, and what was necessary.
The manual box is needed for two main reasons:
1. The box supports the tube that the gear shift mechanism slides along. It’s the shiny silver tube in the manual. Each end of the tube is locked into the outside walls of the shifter box and sits in two rubber grommets. Without the manual shifts box the gear change mechanism wouldn’t be supported.
2. The rubber boot that sits around the gear change mechanism slips on the bottom of the shifter box. Without it the boot couldn’t be mounted, so the gear change mechanism wouldn’t be protected.
also, I wanted the car to be as close to factory as possible. Honestly, I don’t know if you can do it without the manual shifter box.
Good question. Originally I was hoping I could do the conversion without welding the manual shifter box in, but that was because I couldn’t find much information about how to do the conversion, and what was necessary.
The manual box is needed for two main reasons:
1. The box supports the tube that the gear shift mechanism slides along. It’s the shiny silver tube in the manual. Each end of the tube is locked into the outside walls of the shifter box and sits in two rubber grommets. Without the manual shifts box the gear change mechanism wouldn’t be supported.
2. The rubber boot that sits around the gear change mechanism slips on the bottom of the shifter box. Without it the boot couldn’t be mounted, so the gear change mechanism wouldn’t be protected.
also, I wanted the car to be as close to factory as possible. Honestly, I don’t know if you can do it without the manual shifter box.
Thanks for your thorough answer, and for following up with the pictures as well. I figured if there was an option to work around it that would be great but I definitely take your word that there is not, getting a bunch of parts tomorrow and then doing a big pelican order to fill in what I'm still missing. Will definitely be in touch with any other questions, appreciate the help!!!
There is a work around, but I didn’t do it as it looked messy. You would leave in the tiptronic box and then:
1. Drill a second hole just above the centre lower holes in the ends of the tip box and then grind the centre of the two holes away to make the hole oblong to fit the plastic bung that supports the shifter tube.
2. Drill another hole through the tip box ends to route the clutch fluid pipe.
3. Not have a bottom on the box to attach the rubber baffle to, so the bottom of the gear change mechanism would “float” free without protection from dust etc.
I chose for the more factory option and welded in the manual box thingy.
There is a work around, but I didn’t do it as it looked messy. You would leave in the tiptronic box and then:
1. Drill a second hole just above the centre lower holes in the ends of the tip box and then grind the centre of the two holes away to make the hole oblong to fit the plastic bung that supports the shifter tube.
2. Drill another hole through the tip box ends to route the clutch fluid pipe.
3. Not have a bottom on the box to attach the rubber baffle to, so the bottom of the gear change mechanism would “float” free without protection from dust etc.
I chose for the more factory option and welded in the manual box thingy.
Very good to know! I think your previous comments definitely pushed me in the direction of welding in the manual box as you suggest, I'm looking for the best/most straightforward way to get this done and it sounds like the box is a necessary part of that. Sure it will be worth it in the end!
If I was doing it again I would install the numeric shifter and forget about welding in the manual box. It’s a slick bit of kit and I still might buy it….
If I was doing it again I would install the numeric shifter and forget about welding in the manual box. It’s a slick bit of kit and I still might buy it….
Please excuse if this is a redundant question, but the numeric shifter would eliminate the need to weld in the box completely? Would I still need to modify the TIP shift box as you describe if I were to go that direction? Planning to get goldenrod so would be using this in combination with the shifter. If so I would be very interested in pursuing this option. Thanks again for your help!
Based on the instructional video from numeric, their shifter bolts only to the four holes at eh top of the mechanism inside the car on top of the transmission tunnel. It doesn’t need the shifter rod like the factory mechanism, as the numeric shifter supports itself from the four bolts on top. And if you don’t need the shifter rod for the machinist to slide across, then you don’t need the manual box, which supports the shifter rod.
I haven’t done it, but it looks pretty clear that the numeric shifter would be simplest way to make the change without any changes to the body panels.
11-07-2023, 06:30 PM
1991 911 Tiptronic to Manual Swap Questions/Feedback
