Notices
Cayenne 955-957 2003-2010 1st Generation
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Porsche 955 Cayenne Turbo running hot / oil in coolant!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-23-2017, 02:52 PM
  #16  
AO
Supercharged
Rennlist Member
 
AO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Back in Michigan - Full time!
Posts: 18,925
Likes: 0
Received 61 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

I would not just "replace" the engine without knowing the condition of said donor engine. You may be trading one problem for another. It's clear the engine you have has issues. I'm not sure what the typical cause for HG failure is on the Peppers, but with other Porsche V8s (think 928), it's typically pitting in the head that causes the failure - not the gasket. For some reason the coolant seems to attack the aluminum in the heads, and not the block. The 928 block was made of Alusil... not sure about peppers.

If you are considering rebuilding the motor, you will need to have the heads rebuilt (likely that all valve guides need to be replaced), all pulleys, gaskets, chain guides, some sensors, rod bearings?, etc, will also need to be replaced. There will be a zillion WYAITs., but when it's all said and done, you should have a motor that will be ready to go another 150k miles.

My guess is that parts will be stupid expensive. $5k is my guess. Labor even more so. $8k+

If I were in your situation, and if I had an alternate car, I might take it on as a DIY, but then I've rebuilt several 928 motors, so it's not that different. But I would do the total teardown first to assess overall condition and candidacy for rebuilding. If it doesn't pass... bu-bye! Hello newer Cayenne.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it works out for your.
Old 05-23-2017, 06:05 PM
  #17  
J'sWorld
Three Wheelin'
 
J'sWorld's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,769
Received 184 Likes on 136 Posts
Default

As soon as the engine is overheated once it is a slippery downhill slope. There is only 1 coolant temp sensor on the rear water manifold and it measures the water at the coolest point as it comes out of the radiator or the minimum temp that the thermostat will allow. On a fully heated engine that could be between 180 and 220° f. Problem is when there is a coolant leak or spill on a hot engine you wont know it until its too late. This is because that sensor will no longer be submerged in the water @ the coolest part of the engine. The sensor will be bathing in steam @ best and coupled with the dme's buffer @ the guage your screwed real fast. Another reason why cooling system repairs on these Cayennes need to be acted upon swiftly and proactively.

On a side note, Im willing to bet that your heads are not beyond repair. My experience tells me that you will need exhaust guides, a valve job, and surfacing. I doubt your heads are corroded, cracked, or beyond repair. The heads can be removed with the engine in the car. Removal of the entire front end would be neccesary. Top end gasket list is not that bad. Mostly, you will need to find a competent head guy that wont rip you off and has the correct surfacing equipment to get you the proper RA. I have a guy in Texas that is nothing short of AMAZING and I also have a set of complete used heads/cam housings available.
Old 06-24-2017, 03:01 PM
  #18  
GreasyV8
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
GreasyV8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Thanks for the replies, I've not been able to report back recently as I've been busy working in different locations but here is an update of where the car is currently at.

The engine was removed over a week ago and I managed to pop down for an hour to check it over.










Pretty cool to see the engine out of the car in all of it's glory, what a lump..

Unfortunately I've not had great experiences with UK Porsche and they have messed up the only two parts orders I've ever made by either missing items off the delivery or dragging their heals with delivery timings. (I'm still waiting for a diff drain plug I ordered 2 months ago)

So at the minute this is the stage the car will remain at, once the last few parts arrive next week I'll get down to the garage with them so they guys can crack on and get it finished. In the mean time I'm trying to work out whether or not I can save easy money buy using Q7/Touareg mounts instead of Porsche?

Cheers!
Old 11-10-2017, 02:29 PM
  #19  
Joefus
Advanced
 
Joefus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: UK - Surrey
Posts: 85
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Wow!

I can definitely see some plastic coolant tees in these photos - did you change those while it was out?

How did it go - did you get it finished?
Old 11-10-2017, 06:50 PM
  #20  
Dilberto
Drifting
 
Dilberto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 2,543
Received 50 Likes on 44 Posts
Default

Oil in coolant is none other than..... failed oil cooler. Read my DIY sticky. Any compression above 120psi would indicate a not tired motor...max is 180psi(new).
Old 11-12-2017, 08:10 AM
  #21  
GreasyV8
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
GreasyV8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hi,

I've been meaning to update this thread for a while now but have been busy away with work etc and wanted to give a full length reply instead of a few lines about what ended up happening, over the next few days when I get a moment I'll fill in all the details!

Cheers!
Old 11-13-2017, 06:21 PM
  #22  
GreasyV8
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
GreasyV8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

So, after a very long delay (sorry everybody) due to all sorts of things going on, here is a little bit of closure for everyone who laid eyes or commented upon this thread.

I'm happy to report the car is in full working order - sort of!

In total the car was probably in the shop for around 6 weeks purely down to a lot of hidden gems and WYAIT's that spring up with any job such as this.

I replaced the engine mounts as although not leaking or visibly damaged I had no idea or record of the last time they were done (I presume never). I ended up buying this direct from Porsche at an extortionate cost although I'm 99% sure the same would have sufficed from a Touareg/Q7 or even just a different brand. Replaced torque arm at same time due to split - Bought a slighter cheaper one purely for the fact if it wears I can easily notice and replace at home. Did NOT want to run the risk with engine mounts.

In response to a question above regarding coolant T's, Yes and No. I did replace them, however I replaced them with original plastic T's from Porsche. I would have loved to create some from metal as many have done however days were turning into weeks and it was simply much easier to order them as I was ordering other parts almost every day.

There were a hundred and one jobs to be done whist everything was apart and I won't bore you all with the details, so I'll just outline the main ones.

One of my exhaust manifolds was cracked upon inspection. Porsche wanted over $1000 (rough conversion from GBP) PER manifold so I actually sourced some from a totalled 06' cayenne in America with 40k miles which looked almost new! One note on that is they took 3 days over a weekend to arrive... whereas parts from Porsche were taking a week, go figure.

I had all of the valve stem seals replaced along with rear main seal, torque converter seal, along with any other gaskets or seals that were disturbed during the strip down.

There were a couple of oil cooler, coolant and vacuum pipes that also needed replacing and by this point the costs were adding up but it was cost effective in my eyes to just plow on and continue.

I obviously had both head gaskets replaced and the heads/block skimmed/honed. OH and I almost forgot even though its a pretty huge thing to miss out that one of my cylinders was scored. The machining company who did the work managed to glaze over/hone that out however I never did get to see the final product so fingers crossed they did a good job!

Two of the timing chain guides had cracked, one missing a piece of the end and another that looked to have split straight down the middle. My mechanics found a piece from one of them at the bottom of the engine just laying there. I think the other guide did just split and separate - judge for yourself with the pictures below.
At this point I would have loved to replace the timing chain but was told that it would be OK as they have never seen one stretch before although I know some people on this forum swear they can.

That's all I can think of right now on the part's side so I'll leave it at that although if any has any questions or suggestions let me know and it'll no doubt jog my memory as to what else I replaced.

The total cost was around £1500 for parts ($1968) and £2500 for labour ($3280) which I think is reasonable bearing in mind the length of time they had the car whilst parts were arriving from all over and the ever growing list of jobs that I continually added on.

Since having the car back it has been sound mechanically, apart from my temperature needle still goes beyond 80c but now drops back down again after hitting 90-95c presumably as the thermostat opens - which was also replaced actually.
Needless to say I was devastated when I sat and watch the needle climbing again, I was ready to roll the car off a cliff. The work done came with a 12 months / 10k warranty however so that alongside the fact the car would actually cool itself down now I felt a little more appeased.
After some searches I've noticed a few people reporting a fluctuating temperature gauge however I am always worried as I don't exactly live in the warmest of climates.

Since having the car up and running I've changed the plugs/coils, crankcase breather membrane, front discs/pads, front diff, rear diff, transfer and transmission fluids which were all fairly cleaned apart from front diff which suggests they have been done before (car is now at 102k miles)

There are further and ever increasing list of jobs that need doing and I'm definitely at a loss now with the car financially however slowly but surely I will continue until the car is trouble/code free. I have a Durametric now which obviously opens a lot of doors in regards to accessible information. At the moment it seems by the time I get round to completing one job, a further two pop up.
Basically almost every problem I have read about with the 955 I have either experienced first hand or it has had repairs for in the past.

Off topic this last couple of weeks I've sourced a set of 18" cayenne S wheels and 265/65/18 BF Goodrich AT tyres, I love the look of the Cayenne on all terrain rubber and I'm hoping the ride will be improved with the larger tread as the standard 20" used to bang bang bang all the way down the road.


Thanks for reading if you got this far and I'll dump a few photos I haven't already posted below in regards to the rebuild.

Cheers!

Last edited by GreasyV8; 05-15-2018 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Incorrect procedure
Old 11-13-2017, 06:30 PM
  #23  
user 83838290
Banned
 
user 83838290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,046
Received 471 Likes on 272 Posts
Default

Hmmmm, welcome to the club of neverending tweaks and repairs - BTDT. More than once. ;-)
Old 11-13-2017, 06:32 PM
  #24  
GreasyV8
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
GreasyV8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Reference my latest post, here are the extra pictures as promised.




Engine Block before going off to be skimmed/honed.



Scoring can be seen inside the cylinder from this image.



Closer image of the scoring, could be felt under a fingernail at certain points.



Head #1



Head #2



Cam's & Pistons



Parts everywhere!



Cracked guides, really starting to regret my decision at this point!



Cracked guides, really starting to regret my decision at this point!



Transmission



Hope they replaced the seal I provided!



On closer inspection of this photo, You can disregard my above statement about the engine mounts being damage free. You can clearly see the difference between right and left and also that the left has leaked fluid all over!
Old 11-14-2017, 11:10 AM
  #25  
AO
Supercharged
Rennlist Member
 
AO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Back in Michigan - Full time!
Posts: 18,925
Likes: 0
Received 61 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Great pics! Thanks for posting. Very interesting.

One major annoyance regarding the transmission fluid change is the fact I was experiencing harsh shifts before hand which I know is more than likely the valve body but I hoped would be slightly alleviated with fresh redline d4. Since the change however I would say the changes are actually worse and now I get a pretty horrible jerking/clunking when selecting D/R. I have seen that this can be caused by lack of fluid however I am SURE I replaced more fluid than what came out, in fact if anything I would say the trans was underfilled before hand.
My experience was the same. The fluid change seems to exacerbate the trans issues. The rebuilt Valve Body made is all go away. I recommend the one from RevMax, but I'm sure you can find one cheaper (hopefully) on that side of the pond.

Good luck!
Old 11-14-2017, 02:42 PM
  #26  
nodoors
Three Wheelin'
 
nodoors's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,682
Received 65 Likes on 55 Posts
Default

Wow, that is a hell of a lot of parts and work for less than $5,500!

Good luck to you. We all know your pain. It often feels like 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Every now and then you will get a solid 6 months with zero issues and it feels great, haha.
The following users liked this post:
TRINITONY (05-12-2022)
Old 11-14-2017, 04:00 PM
  #27  
deilenberger
Banned
 
deilenberger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spring Lake, NJ, US of A
Posts: 10,085
Received 1,153 Likes on 764 Posts
Default

The scuffs at the top of the bore of the one cylinder didn't look like anything to get excited about. The cars with cylinder breakdown problems - the scuffing takes place below the piston rings toward the bottom of the cylinder bore.

The ones you have might happen if a spark plug broke an insulator and bits of it got wedged between the piston and the cylinder wall. I suspect it will be fine just being honed. Was there any damage to the piston or rings?

Also - I believe you may have the cylinders misnumbered.. from a factory manual (admittedly for a 958 V8 turbo.. but I don't believe they ever changed the numbering):



There are several other diagrams in the service manual that confirm this layout..
Old 04-26-2018, 07:05 PM
  #28  
nodoors
Three Wheelin'
 
nodoors's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,682
Received 65 Likes on 55 Posts
Default

Just curious how the pig is running for you these days? Did you get it all sorted?
Old 05-15-2018, 07:44 PM
  #29  
GreasyV8
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
GreasyV8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hi, sorry for the delayed reply!

I did eventually get everything sorted that I wanted to and having the car in 100% working order (or near as possible) - was phenomenal.
I've never experienced anything like it in regards to the comfort, versatility and sheer speed considering it's huge size and weight

However, due to a change in my job meaning I would be covering a lot more miles I decided to sell the car and get a diesel that would soak up the miles a bit easier. The fact I couldn't even get to where I needed to go on a full tank became tedious stood at the pump and the costs were astronomical, I never intended to use the car for commuting and I was in a constant state of fear as to what could go wrong next or would it start with the turn of the key.

I loved my Cayenne hence why I haemorrhaged so much money into it and I've no doubt I'll own another again in the future, just next time It'll be a few years younger and come with a much more confidence inspiring service history!

The car is with its new owner now and hopefully it'll serve him well for years to come.... Sod's law it'll probably be the most reliable damn car he's ever owned but I guess time will tell.

I'd love to say it's been a pleasure. Owning a Cayenne has been a bumpy ride to say the least but this forum was a beacon of light in regards to identifying and rectifying the multiple problems I encountered so I'd just like to thank everyone who contributed again because you really did make the difference.

Until next time...



Quick Reply: Porsche 955 Cayenne Turbo running hot / oil in coolant!



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 08:33 PM.