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Issue 1 - steering. At low speeds the steering seem fine and reasonably tight. Once over 40 mph I can move the steering left to right about an inch to each side with little effect on the actual steering. Tires are all new, and my bushes seem visually to be ok. All new koni suspension. I did have the car aligned after the suspension was installed.
Issue 2 - brakes. My brake are just so so. They don't seem powerful, like they can't even lock up the wheels if I pressed hard. I don't have any vacuum leaks. I've rebuilt the brembos with new seals. I've used a Motive pressure bleeder 5 times with no change. I've even bled the clutch. However I did go from high performance pads the PO put on to ceramic pads because of the brake squealing. I've replaced all the brake lines with SS lines.
That's the short of it. I've gone over the basics again and again, so I don't know if what I'm feeling is normal or not. I've never driven another 944 turbo.
Probably not much response because both of your issues are very subjective. It is difficult to relate how a car steers and brakes in words rather than actually feeling the car's behavior. It would also help if you told us more about your car, what's been done to it, etc..
It would really behoove you to locate someone nearby that you can compare and evaluate. Possibly someone who sees your request for advise can assist you.
On Issue 1, get under the car and have someone turn the steering wheel back & forth. Check to see what has play and doesn't respond immediately when the steering wheel is turned. You didn't mention if the tie rod ends were replaced, but they can affect the steering response if they are worn. You could also have problem in your steering rack.
Issue 2 is odd. Assuming you don't have ABS (86 models didn't) then you should be able to lock the wheels. Maybe start with testing on a loose surface like a dirt road to see if you can lock them up. Your brake pads could also be an issue if they are track orientated and require warming up before they work well. You might try some stock street pads to see.
Last edited by PaulD_944S2; 08-11-2017 at 02:36 AM.
My brakes felt terrible. I swapped out the front pads for OE ones and it was a night and day difference in stopping ability. Apparently Textar are the same as OE but half the price, but I just wanted it solved.
Probably not much response because both of your issues are very subjective. It is difficult to relate how a car steers and brakes in words rather than actually feeling the car's behavior. It would also help if you told us more about your car, what's been done to it, etc..
It would really behoove you to locate someone nearby that you can compare and evaluate. Possibly someone who sees your request for advise can assist you.
On Issue 1, get under the car and have someone turn the steering wheel back & forth. Check to see what has play and doesn't respond immediately when the steering wheel is turned. You didn't mention if the tie rod ends were replaced, but they can affect the steering response if they are worn. You could also have problem in your steering rack.
Issue 2 is odd. Assuming you don't have ABS (86 models didn't) then you should be able to lock the wheels. Maybe start with testing on a loose surface like a dirt road to see if you can lock them up. Your brake pads could also be an issue if they are track orientated and require warming up before they work well. You might try some stock street pads to see.
no problem, let me give a bit more info:
Issue one (steering feel): On the front I have new koni adjustable struts, new top hats, new tires, to LCA, and wheel bearings seem good, no slop. The rear is new koni's, and bushings and wheel bearings feel good their too. The power steering pump seems to operate without issue. I've been under the car while the car sits on drive up ramps and had my wife turn the wheel back an forth. No apparent slop, slack, or errant noises could be found in the steering rack, and the bushes are not perished. The best way to describe the feel is light and loose at higher speeds, not very responsive. Unfortunately I don't know any other 944 owners to compare it to. I'm not even sure if its suppose to feel like this or not, but something tells me not. I did have the car aligned after the suspension refresh, something tells me the problem might lie there. Unfortunately nobody around here knows how to align these cars except one shop and that's where I took it to be aligned in the first place.
Issue two (brakes) I'm going to switch to Pagid pads to see if that helps. The car originally came with Pagid blues which were great but squealed like a stuck pig. So I switched to what I have now, EBC Reds ceramic pads. When I bleed the system I don't see bubbles in the last 3 times I bled the brakes, and I have new SS brake lines as well. I replaced all the brake piston seals last year or so. Made sure the were lubed up with the correct German lube (I think ATE, or something like that). I use DOT 4 fluid. I replaced the valve on the brake booster line that goes in it to no avail. I don' seem to have any boost leaks. I've replaced just about every vacuum line in the engine bay. Is there a way to test a brake booster while its in the car? I haven't done that yet.
The car just doesn't come to a stop with any authority. My BRZ with Performance Pack has Brembo's and it stops like an anchor has been dropped (I realize that may be like apples and oranges there). At best the stopping is adequate and doesn't feel like a performance braking system of a Porsche should be. My old 86 Carrera 911 had amazing braking and they weren't even Brembo's. Hopefully these pads can help.
I hope that adds a bit more useful info. Let me know anything else.
1. See if the alignment shop (or go to a different one) can put in a little more toe. We don't know what specs they used at this point but that might help. Do you have a print out that you can post, or type in the settings?
A quick search of the Lafayette Louisiana area showed over ten shops that do wheel alignments. I would hope that at least one is competent.
2. Your brakes should as good as the BRZ, except that you don't have ABS, so you should be able to skid a wheel. I don't know of any modern cars that can't lock up at least one wheel in a panic stop (except ABS). The 951 has Brembo calipers and they should work very well. I really think you may have a brake pad issue here. Try to locate a set of the stock Textar pads that were originally used. Call Pelican and Paragon and see what they can offer.
stock textar pads are a bit dusty but within a few feet of your PP on the 60 to zero on stock rubber. Bedded pads should be able to lock up any tire.
any chance you have the alignment printout or have you tried fiddling with tire pressure? I like +2 in front and minus a bit in the rear, not that I trust any of my tire gauges.
stock textar pads are a bit dusty but within a few feet of your PP on the 60 to zero on stock rubber. Bedded pads should be able to lock up any tire.
any chance you have the alignment printout or have you tried fiddling with tire pressure? I like +2 in front and minus a bit in the rear, not that I trust any of my tire gauges.
I will see how the Pagid pads do. I will use my Motive bleeder again. A question I haven't been able to figure is can you pump the brakes while using a Motive bleeder? I'm doing this project myself and I want to pump the brakes just to make sure I dislodge any bubbles but I don't know if I'll over pressurize the system. Failing that I thought about engaging the brake half way and holding it there with a stick or something then use the Motive bleeder. Any thoughts on these ideas?
As for a print out for the alignment, no, I didn't get a print out. I did however check my air pressure in my tires. I run 16 Fuchs and they are set to 36 psi.
Both my 944's have ZERO play in the steering. If you move the wheel even slightly you get steering action. I've even played with it, when centered I've tested the play, and I can detect NONE. That a 87 NA and a 86 951.
As for the brakes, I'm with you. I really feel mine are under-powered. I was expecting a whole lot more from the 951 brakes. I have no idea if it's the pads the PO used or not. I'm planning on trying to use some different ones next time, but mainly due to the horrendous amount of dust these produce. It's insane. They are noisy and dusty, they should really grab, but I'm not getting that. I mean it stops ok, and I've never had a need to lock up any wheels, but it's not near what I was expecting.
How many miles on your car? Any extensive track time/history?
1. Suggest you get the car on a lift and examine the two steering shaft u-joints.
2. Review Michael's "Video - brake booster teardown". My suspicion...after initial light braking, you are loosing all vacuum assist under heavy braking due to a faulty tapered cup seal on that spring-loaded shaft.
Issue 1 - steering. At low speeds the steering seem fine and reasonably tight. Once over 40 mph I can move the steering left to right about an inch to each side with little effect on the actual steering. Tires are all new, and my bushes seem visually to be ok. All new koni suspension. I did have the car aligned after the suspension was installed.
Issue 2 - brakes. My brake are just so so. They don't seem powerful, like they can't even lock up the wheels if I pressed hard. I don't have any vacuum leaks. I've rebuilt the brembos with new seals. I've used a Motive pressure bleeder 5 times with no change. I've even bled the clutch. However I did go from high performance pads the PO put on to ceramic pads because of the brake squealing. I've replaced all the brake lines with SS lines.
That's the short of it. I've gone over the basics again and again, so I don't know if what I'm feeling is normal or not. I've never driven another 944 turbo.
Are you a PCA member that knows any of the Whiskey Bay Region guys....?
If not,
1) I could arrange a meet up where one of our friends/racers that live in/around Lafayette could tests drive your car, or
2) Come on down to the NOLA PCA race/DE next month. a)It's easy to leave/re-enter track for a test. b) There's plenty asphalt inside the gates to test. c) you can do "lunch parade laps" on the actual track which are paced but you can make a good enough gap to test what you are talking about. d) you can meet all the 944 owners around you.
We can run your car over the scales to see if one/more wheels is carrying too much load.
Are you a PCA member that knows any of the Whiskey Bay Region guys....?
If not,
1) I could arrange a meet up where one of our friends/racers that live in/around Lafayette could tests drive your car, or
2) Come on down to the NOLA PCA race/DE next month. a)It's easy to leave/re-enter track for a test. b) There's plenty asphalt inside the gates to test. c) you can do "lunch parade laps" on the actual track which are paced but you can make a good enough gap to test what you are talking about. d) you can meet all the 944 owners around you.
We can run your car over the scales to see if one/more wheels is carrying too much load.
T
I am not currently a PCA member, and thank you for the invite. Right now the car is on blocks awaiting the new pads. I will get back with an update once I get the pads installed and bedded in.
When I picked up my 944 the brakes were ok, but not great. I discovered the rears were frozen and the fronts were hardly working.
I rebuilt the rears and picked up a couple of rebuilt ones for the fronts. Did not change the pads since they were nearly new. No idea of brand. Also replaced the OE rubber brake lines with braided stainless ones.
Flushed the brake system and verified all calipers were working. Stomping on the brakes after all of that would put you though the windshield if you were not wearing a seatbelt.
The calipers have been in the car for over 30 years and likely need good cleaning and rebuild. The 951's brakes should be a noticeable improvement over my N/A's. Remember the rubber lines are just as old and expand with pressure. Changing to new lines that don't expand will be a noticeable improvement.
Ok, new brake pads are on, and the car brakes considerably better, however the pedal doesn't get hard, it just goes down about an 1 1/2" but doesn't firm up. Before you say "air in the system" understand I used the motive bleeder again and got zero air bubbles all around.
08-08-2017, 11:47 PM
Need advice on a couple issues on my 951
