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Do you use your car on the street or track or both?
My intent is street mainly with DE days on occasion. Only had the car since Early Oct. Was not happy with the stock shifter play and feel. Decided cables were a big part of the "feel". The difference is significant. Numeric cables are incredibly robust/stiff compared to OE. Smoothness and accuracy both improved greatly.
I've read accounts here the OE cables can break which was another reason to replace them. Being stranded because of a broken cable is not something I'm up for.
I am perfectly happy with my '09 C2, and it's my first Porsche, so I guess I am one of the poster boys for R&T's theory. However, their statement that...
It's actually gotten to the point where there aren't any more deals to be had on them. That means that prices are going to start to go up on the water cooled cars.
...is a logical fallacy. It's called false equivalence. The prices of the air cooled cars have gone up because they are air-cooled and were produced in smaller numbers. I will also contend that these air cooled cars are irrationally priced right now but that's a whole 'nuther discussion. Claiming that our 997s will go up because the air cooled cars have is not a valid conclusion.
My intent is street mainly with DE days on occasion. Only had the car since Early Oct. Was not happy with the stock shifter play and feel. Decided cables were a big part of the "feel". The difference is significant. Numeric cables are incredibly robust/stiff compared to OE. Smoothness and accuracy both improved greatly.
I've read accounts here the OE cables can break which was another reason to replace them. Being stranded because of a broken cable is not something I'm up for.
...is a logical fallacy. It's called false equivalence. The prices of the air cooled cars have gone up because they are air-cooled and were produced in smaller numbers. I will also contend that these air cooled cars are irrationally priced right now but that's a whole 'nuther discussion. Claiming that our 997s will go up because the air cooled cars have is not a valid conclusion.
If 996's start to trend up then we can probably assume the 997 will level off or even appreciate, because I believe a 997 will always be worth more than the comparable 996.
But until then, the 991 continues to drop which pushes the 997 further down. Some may disagree, but I believe the 991 will always be worth more than the comparable 997 in the secondary market.
Many 997s are 10 years old at this point which, although not as old as the 996, is far enough down the depreciation curve such that it flattens considerably. On top of this, the 997 is desirable on the used market due to a few key characteristics:
- They're generally considered better looking than the 996 and by some, even the 991
- They've got a good reputation for durability and quality. Even the IMS issue on the 997.1 isn't as prevalent as it was with the 996.
- They balance raw, old-school feel with modern refinement in a way that few, if any other cars on the market today can replicate, including the 991
- The 997.2 in particular was produced in far fewer numbers thanks to the global financial crisis of 2008-2010. Annual North American sales totals for the 997.2 were about half that of the 997.1 and 991.1. Supply and demand.
If 996's start to trend up then we can probably assume the 997 will level off or even appreciate, because I believe a 997 will always be worth more than the comparable 996.
But until then, the 991 continues to drop which pushes the 997 further down. Some may disagree, but I believe the 991 will always be worth more than the comparable 997 in the secondary market.
I don't necessarily agree. Lets revisit this in 10-20 years.
997.1 S can be had for $40k. Good luck finding a clean 997.2 S at $40k. That is why I bought a 997.2 base last year, as a clean CPO S was still at $50k.
I'm still happy with my "starter" 911 though.
I paid $48K (+tax/license) w/CPO for moderately optioned base Carrera Oct of last year. 40,593 miles one owner car.
About every 2 weeks drive a friend's '86 Carrera (she's back East for a few months). Massive difference. The only thing I like about the '86 is knowing where the front tires are (due to the headlights being so prominent).
I thought my 996.2 was a big improvement over my 911SC (other than the IMS failure I experienced ), but the 997.2 (even if it a base model) is another step up.
I really don't think you can go wrong with a 997
Crossing fingers the 997.2s keep dropping in price.
Based on my observations they are. A 997 GTS is listed for $59K currently and I've been seeing C4S models get down to around $50K. The 997.2 C4S is much more car than the 997.1 with PDK and greatly improved PTM AWD system that is similar to the 991. The chances of buying a 5-10 -year-old production car for $50K that appreciates are very low.
The 991 is an objectively better car (keyless entry, more models sold with desirable options like PSE/SC, etc). so as the prices drop that only leaves one place for the 997.2 to go. This isn't a 993 vs. 996 situation. The 996 had a lot of faults even when new, same goes for the 997.1. The 997.2/991/991.2 are improvements of their predecessors. Going from a 993 to a 996 would be similar to trading a 1963 327 Fuelie Corvette Coupe for a 1973 350ci Corvette. Newer isn't always better but usually it is.
Last edited by Abe Froman; 12-20-2016 at 11:15 PM.
I got mine from Csrmax for 50k a 2009 C4S with 28k miles on it. I pounced on it soon as it got listed. I had to pay 600 to get it shipped from Florida to MD. Local P dealers were charging st least 60k for similar cars. No accidents and great shape.
QUOTE=Robocop305;13826808]Where have you seeing a 997.2 C4S for $50k? Unless there are some hidden issues, high miles or accidents??[/QUOTE]
The Runner-Up:
This car sat for sale for awhile back in Oct/Nov. While the color is polarizing the 997.2 w/e-PTM,PDK,SC+ & M1A is a totally different beast than an old cruiserly993/996/997 Targa Tip.
-2009 MSRP: $138,XXX! $52K @62,XXX miles. Talk about depreciation still better than an S-Class
The matter of selling my GTI is getting more & more pressing. 2017 is gonna be a good year for the 997.2.
[
The Winner!
Basalt black over natural Carrera Red C4S. MSRP $12X,XXX. Oct 2016: $39K...with 123,XXX (ONE HUNDRED TWENTY THEEE THOUSAND) miles! Again all the options including PSE.
Both stunning C4Ss......997.2s move fast now and sell here in DC pretty quick. When you see them inside the showroom and not on the lot it says something
Crossing fingers the 997.2s keep dropping in price.
Based on my observations they are. A 997 GTS is listed for $59K currently and I've been seeing C4S models get down to around $50K. The 997.2 C4S is much more car than the 997.1 with PDK and greatly improved PTM AWD system that is similar to the 991. The chances of buying a 5-10 -year-old production car for $50K that appreciates are very low.
The 991 is an objectively better car (keyless entry, more models sold with desirable options like PSE/SC, etc). so as the prices drop that only leaves one place for the 997.2 to go. This isn't a 993 vs. 996 situation. The 996 had a lot of faults even when new, same goes for the 997.1. The 997.2/991/991.2 are improvements of their predecessors. Going from a 993 to a 996 would be similar to trading a 1963 327 Fuelie Corvette Coupe for a 1973 350ci Corvette. Newer isn't always better but usually it is.
I'd rather have a very low miles 997.1 with a warranty than a high milage 997.2, but thats just me (I am OCD about miles).
of course I am NOT looking at 4WD, PDK vs Tip, etc...(in fact I favor the 2wd and 6MT), As those are HUGE upgrades on the .2
I get compliments from car people all the time. People love the 997. That is all that matters. Evenually it will be compared to its peers and future cars based on "fun" and it will win imo.
12-01-2016, 02:26 PM
), but the 997.2 (even if it a base model) is another step up.
