blade7

OK .

Paulyy

Please cut it out.
Keep this thread on topic. People are free to use what they feel like.
I've used both. on many cars. There's pros and cons for both.

V2Rocket

my experience is that both rogue and vems are easy enough to set up and tune. But vems is easier to work with because it has a direct wideband input to the ecu (wideband is the only o2 sensor) whereas rogue is limited by the motronic hardware, so you have to look at the logs and adjust it back and forth... Vems does it for you.

That's a huge reason why I made the switch - driving around and constantly tuning isn't what I want to do. Vems made me do it once, and it was set.

As a consequence of the better and easier tuning, my average fuel economy for the same driving routes went from 24mpg combined on rogue to over 30 these days on vems.

Fveeckho

Well, I'm also looking to do similar upgrades as posted in the initial post.

But I'm actually looking to start with the plug and play VEMS, based on all the great feedback I've found about it so far and the performance that could be gained on a stock car). Everyone says it's easy to tune and install, and the price is very decent...so why not I'm thinking then?

The one thing I'm actually waiting on for now, is a forum thread where somebody who installed it on his car (preferably on a stock turbo), shows the different steps on how to do it with some links to different products bought or used and some installation pictures. For example how the wiring from the O2 wideband was done to the VEMS ECU, what kind of replacement was placed for the stock AFM and if you can buy any somewhere, where and how the IAT sensor was installed,... Probably all obvious stuff for most people, but for somebody with no experience working on these cars, it could be of great help.
And hearing that already a lot of people installed the plug and play VEMS and are very satisfied with the results, somebody will maybe find time to start a small how-to-install instructions thread hehe

But anyway, interesting topic this one, hoping to read some more ideas from others!

My idea at the moment would be (on a 1988 Turbo S car):
* VEMS plug & play together with 3 bar FPR and maybe upgrade to bigger injectors (80 lb)
* Tial F38 wastegate kit: http://www.augmentautomotive.co.uk/p...wastegate-kit/
* electronic boost controller to replace stock cycling valve.
* addressing all current and future vacuum leaks with vacuum hose kit from LR.
* 2,5 or 3 inch catless exhaust line
This would mean keeping my stock K26/8 turbo, and hopefully running it at 1 bar of boost instead of the stock 0,75 bar.

By the way, I found the info on this site very interesting:
http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk/index.ph...44turboparttwo

Hopefully the information on the site in the link posted above is correct...but it seemed all very reasonable to me

Part 1 also had interesting some interesting info!
http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk/index.ph...44turbopartone

V2Rocket

The O2 sensor you just have to run the wiring into the cabin somehow (I cut a slot in an existing grommet) and then the wire plugs into the ECU directly.

I bought a "cone filter adapter", a silicone/rubber coupler, and a short piece of pipe to connect the air filter box to the J-boot in place of the AFM. I believe the 951 AFM outlet is 80mm so you need that size coupler/pipe.

My car is NA so I drilled a hole in the side of the airbox for the IAT sensor. On a turbo you'd want it on the pipe between the IC and the intake manifold. You could just weld a small threaded bung onto the pipe for the sensor to thread into.

odonnell

VEMS also needs a vacuum signal, but that's as easy as teeing into a small vac line (FPR for example) and running it to the ECU. Just replace the AFM with a piece of tube that you can adapt on each side... on my NA setup, one side is a cone air filter adapter from an E30, flipped backward and bolted to the airbox. Instead of a cone filter, I attached a silicone coupler to it and went from there.

Smudo

With VEMS you do not need seperate boost controller. You replace the cycling valve with salenoild valve and controll the boost through VEMS.

If I would want to spend 4k on my 951, most probably I would do various maintenance works. Sometimes while doing the maintenance, you can combine it with some sort of upgrade (e.g. like the updated caster blocks that replaced the original ones, or OEM bushings with Powerflex ones etc.).

lee101315

I agree, most people would not and should not waste time on a standalone unless its a very dedicated car.... Or the owner is extremely curious and has the time and patience to want to do it for his own satisfaction.

Voith

959 didn't come with MAF and I'm sure engineers would use it if the road driveability would noticeably improve.

DasSilberWedge

Answering the original post.. Spending money on upgrading the suspension, brakes and tires is probably money better spent I'd think. Do you have a limited slip diff? Are the bushings still original? My little S2 is far quicker on the street than it once was after I went to coilovers and put new bushings, brakes and tires on the car. Made a massive difference. I think even just doing bushings would make a really noticeable difference.

V2Rocket

He said the brakes and suspension are already sorted.

Besides, none of those things mean a thing when you are blasting up an onramp or finding a hole on traffic, which is where 75% of street driven cars would even get in to boost

DasSilberWedge

Pardon me, not sure how I missed that.

They'd mean a lot more once I passed him going into the same on/off ramp!

raleighBahn

As the ask is how I would spend my money, what you currently have is great (the turbo, fpr, etc), and if it were my money I would get the vitesse vmaf+ and matching injectors and be off to the races. As for gauges, i really like my AEM cluster under the radio (afr, EBC, and oil temp). I've liked my only944 SSK as well.

rsabeebe

thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. as V2Rocket clarified, the suspension, brakes, steering, tires, etc. are all in good shape, if not recently replaced/rebuilt. the main goal right now is simply more power. it often seems necessary to establish a driving/ability benchmark to establish your background and knowledge of upgrades - i have many, many years of autoxing, track and instructing experience and spent a few years racing scca and bmwcca. so, replacing the bushing in the car is not the type of upgrade i'm looking for. that will certainly help your car handle better, but it's not going to make it noticeably quicker on the street, unless you're taking things too far. like a couple others here, i'm looking for an upgrade to the 'power unit'. i was looking for specific suggestions on pieces - waste gate, turbo, downpipe/exhaust, injectors, maf, ecu/chips, etc. sorry if i wasn't clear enough to begin with. there have been a lot of really good suggestions on ecu/standalone systems, but i think those are honestly beyond my needs, but i appreciate the suggestions and the knowledge that is well beyond my own on that subject. i have a large package deal i'm considering right now - if i move in that direction, i'll post what i picked up.

Tom M'Guinn

In addition to engine management, consider a little hardware. I'm a Vitesse Racing user and fan and don't think you can find a more track-tested, time-tested system than Vitesse's full turbo/maf/piggyback kit. The turbo and software are matched really well and make gobs of power. This was the original true MAF code chip board and is seriously dialed-in to give factory smooth performance from idle to redline. The latest SMT8 piggyback can do just about anything you might want -- boost control, advance and retard timing, add and subtract fuel, drive other ancillaries, log data, etc. It's a high resolution (384 cells) digital controller. Combined, the turbo, maf and piggyback are hard to beat. Just add a Tial Wastegate and a test pipe (and wideband, boost gauge and knock counter for good measure) and you're ready for the track.