Does anyone know this 964 for sale in Canada??
01-28-2014, 09:07 AM
#46
Three Wheelin'
Hey M3231, as noted above, VIN's aren't private info - they are proudly displayed in the windshield of your car. It's absolutely common practice to quote and share VIN's here to ensure legitimacy and provenance of a car.
You're pretty new here - and when you first posted to offer some insight to the car, it was one of your VERY first posts - and so we, as a pretty tight group who view post count as some sort of vetting metric, were skeptical.
Your follow on posts and some oddities about the car (real or mistaken) have everyone's spidey senses tingling.
I don't think you're going to sell your car to a Rennlister at this point - so I wouldn't work too hard at defending your position. (And one might argue that the more intensely you protest - the shadier you're looking, I know, the irony, right?)
Just hang tight till the Spring and if it's a legit, strong example - it'll sell quickly. 964's are in demand - so don't worry - you'll sell it.
Hope that helps.
RK
You're pretty new here - and when you first posted to offer some insight to the car, it was one of your VERY first posts - and so we, as a pretty tight group who view post count as some sort of vetting metric, were skeptical.
Your follow on posts and some oddities about the car (real or mistaken) have everyone's spidey senses tingling.
I don't think you're going to sell your car to a Rennlister at this point - so I wouldn't work too hard at defending your position. (And one might argue that the more intensely you protest - the shadier you're looking, I know, the irony, right?)
Just hang tight till the Spring and if it's a legit, strong example - it'll sell quickly. 964's are in demand - so don't worry - you'll sell it.
Hope that helps.
RK
01-28-2014, 11:55 AM
#47
Race Car
I'm feeling tingly.
I'd rather buy from someone who tells me whats good about there car.
You asking to trust what you post (15 posts btw) and not trust CarFax??
Posting bad press about CarFax or any other resource like it is suspicious at best.
I'd rather buy from someone who tells me whats good about there car.
You asking to trust what you post (15 posts btw) and not trust CarFax??
Posting bad press about CarFax or any other resource like it is suspicious at best.
01-28-2014, 06:14 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
01-29-2014, 11:03 AM
#50
Team Owner
05-18-2017, 03:18 PM
#51
Track Day
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Hi, I was the owner of this car and I wanted to write this reply on this subject, years after the car sold. I'm doing so for your information and protection, so that you do not have to endure what I did. I'm not blaming the person who took my VIN number and started to broadcast that the car was a wreck. I’m not blaming the people that said I was trying to hide something because I was saying not to trust Carfax. Most people simply don’t know better. Now several years after the sale, I have nothing to gain personally by writing this. My only hope is that this message brings to light the problems with Carfax.
The claim was that the car was wrecked (totaled and salvaged) years prior in a small town in New York according to Carfax. In an attempt to clear this black mark from my property, I went to great lengths and details to find the truth.
First the claim was that the accident occurred on New Year's day in a small suburb of New York. At the time the car it would have been fairly new and I don't know anyone that would have been driving a fairly new Porsche in the winter in NY where its snowy, icy and they salt the roads. This was the first red flag. Secondly the claim was that there were two vehicles involved.
So my investigation first started at the library of said small town. I had them search records of newspapers on and about the date of this alleged crash to see if there was any such news. One would think if somebody crashed a fairly new 911 Porsche, to the point where it was “totaled” on New Year's Day, in a small suburb of New York and that that there was apparently a 2nd car involved too, SOMEBODY would have heard about it. But there was no such news story.
Next I thought well, somebody must have called the police. The police in the small suburb we're not only nice enough to check records on and about the date of this alleged crash but they were also nice enough to give me a signed written letter that there was no such record of any crash on or about that date with the Porsche or other vehicle involved. The police also keep records of 9-1-1 calls and there was no record of anything relating to a Porsche on or about New Year's Day in this small suburb of New York.
So then I thought well maybe it wasn't reported to the police (even though it was supposedly a write off). So I called the fire department. Again they had no record of any such crash and no record of any 911 call.
With all this information in hand I felt confident that Carfax would remove their said claim against my car but they wouldn't. Their claim now was that the records were purged because they were more than six years old.
At the same time Carfax said that they receive their information from thousands of sources. I asked them to show me only one source yet they would not. They could not provide me with one document from anybody saying there was such a crash. I asked Carfax to provide me with information from the insurance company, because surely there was some insurance claim? Again they said records were purged and they do not have to provide such information anyway.
Does this make any sense? They get their information from “thousands of sources” yet those records were purged, yet they still have this information somehow? Yet they were not willing to provide me with anything from anybody in regards to alleged crash.
The car had being appraised for insurance purposes by the president of the Porsche Club of America Upper Canada chapter as well. He has three Porsches of his own and has being appraising Porsche cars for more than 30 years. His appraisal found nothing but moderate wear and tear on the car certainly nothing structural that would have indicated that this car was totaled at some point as Carfax claimed.
2) my personal mechanic on the car who Tunes GT3 cup cars, had also been through the car with a fine-tooth comb and found nothing wrong with it.
3) myself, I grew up in the car business. My father had several car dealerships. We were buying selling repairing restoring cars for years. I consider myself pretty experienced when it comes to cars. I found nothing wrong with it.
4) finally I took it to the local Porsche dealership and paid for a pre-delivery inspection. They put it up on the Hoist they looked all around the car they drove the car and stamped it pointing out nothing more than regular wear and tear.
But none of the information that I brought for us to Carfax would make them change their position.
So then I did some investigation on Carfax and found that they are involved in not one but several class action lawsuits brought on by private individuals as well as car dealerships.
It seems the public puts a lot of faith and they're $40 reports that they generate seemingly from thin air. Some reports claimed the cars are crashed yet they are not others claim that cars are good but yet they have been crashed.
Carfax are not mechanics, they are not Structural Engineers, They are not a body shop, they are not lawyers, they are nothing! They have never seen any of the cars that they report on, they have no service Bay that anybody can take a car to to prove them right or wrong, they simply sell $40 reports that's all there is to it. They work on the fear of the public. " oh if you don't buy a $40 report you never know what you're going to get".
Every other industry requires licensing. If you're a mechanic, you need a license. If you're a real estate agent you need a license. If you're a home inspector guess what? You need a license! If you're a doctor, and accountant, anybody of any type of professional status generally requires a license under a larger body who looks over that industry.
Well guess what I found out? Carfax, because they are only selling $40 reports, which they claim they get their information from thousands of other " sources" ( it says this right at the bottom of the form) they don't have to be licensed!
Other companies similar to Carfax, I pulled reports on the same car and they were 100% positive about the car. No record of theft or crash or anything! How can Carfax make these claims that their competitors claim the exact same car is perfect?
But wait kids! It even gets more interesting!
After some time of trying to sell the car unsuccessfully, I received the phone call from a company who claimed that they sell 16,000 Vehicles a year. They claim that they only deal with high-end cars and the mine qualified for this. They had a killer website and a so-called race car driver who endorsed their product. The person on the other end of the phone was a very good salesman. He was like a bulldog and called me every day sometimes several times a day. Their deal was that for $500 US, they would list the car on hundreds of websites. The car would stay up there until it is sold and they were very confident that it would be sold within 30 days. The company claimed that they would handle transportation for the car worldwide, they would qualify the buyer, they would Finance the buyer, and that the financing would include the transportation. If the buyer requested they could even put a warranty on the car! Realizing how much advertising cost I thought what do I have to lose? $500. So I gave it to them. After that I asked to see the listing for the car, nobody would answer my calls, shortly after that the entire website was pulled down. The fellow that was calling me daily was named "Stephen Polk Jr". I Googled him and his company and guess what? Steven Polk JR. is also the head of Carfax!
This company was based out of Las Vegas Nevada. I called the ombudsman of the state and lodged a complaint. I called the attorney general office in Las Vegas and lodged a complaint and I lodged a complaint with the New York attorney general office as well.
The end result of all this? And I quote, " there's nothing we can do for you but if you want to sue the company personally stand in line" that's what the New York attorney general told me.
During my investigation and Communications between the Attorney General office and Carfax, Carfax kept stating their same position, however on several of their letters from Carfax, the date of the alleged crash was different! I pointed this out to the attorney general's office, that Carfax didn't even know the proper date of their own alleged story.
The company is an absolute farce, rip off, and they hold people's property and devalue it.
The eventual Buyer of the car in the end saw past all this and agreed with me. That's why he bought the car, however I'm certain I could have got thousands more for the car without this problem not to mention the one year I spent arguing with them.
It's so bizarre it's like me starting a company about paranormal investigations and without even coming to see your house I can sell reports saying that your house is so haunted and yet I didn't even go there but this is what I've heard from thousands of other sources and guess what I don't have to provide you with any of my sources. For those that believe and ghosts, they would not buy your property thereby causing you thousands of dollars of damage but there's nothing you can do about it because I can simply say that it was third-party knowledge.
Like children on a playground saying something nasty about someone the totally isn't true but yet the victim becomes part of the lie.
Like an innocent man being convicted of being a pedophile. Even if the conviction is totally untrue, the stigma is attached to the person and many would think twice of hiring them.
We live in an age where we really have to rely on our own due diligence. If you are serious about buying or selling a car, you need to check it out first hand yourself. If it's an international automobile and you can't make it there you need to get a qualified third-party shop to look it over and stamp it before you buy it.
How can anyone write a report someone else's property without even seeing it? It's absolutely ridiculous. The entire industry should either be banned or legislated like everything else.
I hope this chat helps someone else out who may be looking to buy or sell cars.
The claim was that the car was wrecked (totaled and salvaged) years prior in a small town in New York according to Carfax. In an attempt to clear this black mark from my property, I went to great lengths and details to find the truth.
First the claim was that the accident occurred on New Year's day in a small suburb of New York. At the time the car it would have been fairly new and I don't know anyone that would have been driving a fairly new Porsche in the winter in NY where its snowy, icy and they salt the roads. This was the first red flag. Secondly the claim was that there were two vehicles involved.
So my investigation first started at the library of said small town. I had them search records of newspapers on and about the date of this alleged crash to see if there was any such news. One would think if somebody crashed a fairly new 911 Porsche, to the point where it was “totaled” on New Year's Day, in a small suburb of New York and that that there was apparently a 2nd car involved too, SOMEBODY would have heard about it. But there was no such news story.
Next I thought well, somebody must have called the police. The police in the small suburb we're not only nice enough to check records on and about the date of this alleged crash but they were also nice enough to give me a signed written letter that there was no such record of any crash on or about that date with the Porsche or other vehicle involved. The police also keep records of 9-1-1 calls and there was no record of anything relating to a Porsche on or about New Year's Day in this small suburb of New York.
So then I thought well maybe it wasn't reported to the police (even though it was supposedly a write off). So I called the fire department. Again they had no record of any such crash and no record of any 911 call.
With all this information in hand I felt confident that Carfax would remove their said claim against my car but they wouldn't. Their claim now was that the records were purged because they were more than six years old.
At the same time Carfax said that they receive their information from thousands of sources. I asked them to show me only one source yet they would not. They could not provide me with one document from anybody saying there was such a crash. I asked Carfax to provide me with information from the insurance company, because surely there was some insurance claim? Again they said records were purged and they do not have to provide such information anyway.
Does this make any sense? They get their information from “thousands of sources” yet those records were purged, yet they still have this information somehow? Yet they were not willing to provide me with anything from anybody in regards to alleged crash.
The car had being appraised for insurance purposes by the president of the Porsche Club of America Upper Canada chapter as well. He has three Porsches of his own and has being appraising Porsche cars for more than 30 years. His appraisal found nothing but moderate wear and tear on the car certainly nothing structural that would have indicated that this car was totaled at some point as Carfax claimed.
2) my personal mechanic on the car who Tunes GT3 cup cars, had also been through the car with a fine-tooth comb and found nothing wrong with it.
3) myself, I grew up in the car business. My father had several car dealerships. We were buying selling repairing restoring cars for years. I consider myself pretty experienced when it comes to cars. I found nothing wrong with it.
4) finally I took it to the local Porsche dealership and paid for a pre-delivery inspection. They put it up on the Hoist they looked all around the car they drove the car and stamped it pointing out nothing more than regular wear and tear.
But none of the information that I brought for us to Carfax would make them change their position.
So then I did some investigation on Carfax and found that they are involved in not one but several class action lawsuits brought on by private individuals as well as car dealerships.
It seems the public puts a lot of faith and they're $40 reports that they generate seemingly from thin air. Some reports claimed the cars are crashed yet they are not others claim that cars are good but yet they have been crashed.
Carfax are not mechanics, they are not Structural Engineers, They are not a body shop, they are not lawyers, they are nothing! They have never seen any of the cars that they report on, they have no service Bay that anybody can take a car to to prove them right or wrong, they simply sell $40 reports that's all there is to it. They work on the fear of the public. " oh if you don't buy a $40 report you never know what you're going to get".
Every other industry requires licensing. If you're a mechanic, you need a license. If you're a real estate agent you need a license. If you're a home inspector guess what? You need a license! If you're a doctor, and accountant, anybody of any type of professional status generally requires a license under a larger body who looks over that industry.
Well guess what I found out? Carfax, because they are only selling $40 reports, which they claim they get their information from thousands of other " sources" ( it says this right at the bottom of the form) they don't have to be licensed!
Other companies similar to Carfax, I pulled reports on the same car and they were 100% positive about the car. No record of theft or crash or anything! How can Carfax make these claims that their competitors claim the exact same car is perfect?
But wait kids! It even gets more interesting!
After some time of trying to sell the car unsuccessfully, I received the phone call from a company who claimed that they sell 16,000 Vehicles a year. They claim that they only deal with high-end cars and the mine qualified for this. They had a killer website and a so-called race car driver who endorsed their product. The person on the other end of the phone was a very good salesman. He was like a bulldog and called me every day sometimes several times a day. Their deal was that for $500 US, they would list the car on hundreds of websites. The car would stay up there until it is sold and they were very confident that it would be sold within 30 days. The company claimed that they would handle transportation for the car worldwide, they would qualify the buyer, they would Finance the buyer, and that the financing would include the transportation. If the buyer requested they could even put a warranty on the car! Realizing how much advertising cost I thought what do I have to lose? $500. So I gave it to them. After that I asked to see the listing for the car, nobody would answer my calls, shortly after that the entire website was pulled down. The fellow that was calling me daily was named "Stephen Polk Jr". I Googled him and his company and guess what? Steven Polk JR. is also the head of Carfax!
This company was based out of Las Vegas Nevada. I called the ombudsman of the state and lodged a complaint. I called the attorney general office in Las Vegas and lodged a complaint and I lodged a complaint with the New York attorney general office as well.
The end result of all this? And I quote, " there's nothing we can do for you but if you want to sue the company personally stand in line" that's what the New York attorney general told me.
During my investigation and Communications between the Attorney General office and Carfax, Carfax kept stating their same position, however on several of their letters from Carfax, the date of the alleged crash was different! I pointed this out to the attorney general's office, that Carfax didn't even know the proper date of their own alleged story.
The company is an absolute farce, rip off, and they hold people's property and devalue it.
The eventual Buyer of the car in the end saw past all this and agreed with me. That's why he bought the car, however I'm certain I could have got thousands more for the car without this problem not to mention the one year I spent arguing with them.
It's so bizarre it's like me starting a company about paranormal investigations and without even coming to see your house I can sell reports saying that your house is so haunted and yet I didn't even go there but this is what I've heard from thousands of other sources and guess what I don't have to provide you with any of my sources. For those that believe and ghosts, they would not buy your property thereby causing you thousands of dollars of damage but there's nothing you can do about it because I can simply say that it was third-party knowledge.
Like children on a playground saying something nasty about someone the totally isn't true but yet the victim becomes part of the lie.
Like an innocent man being convicted of being a pedophile. Even if the conviction is totally untrue, the stigma is attached to the person and many would think twice of hiring them.
We live in an age where we really have to rely on our own due diligence. If you are serious about buying or selling a car, you need to check it out first hand yourself. If it's an international automobile and you can't make it there you need to get a qualified third-party shop to look it over and stamp it before you buy it.
How can anyone write a report someone else's property without even seeing it? It's absolutely ridiculous. The entire industry should either be banned or legislated like everything else.
I hope this chat helps someone else out who may be looking to buy or sell cars.
Last edited by m3231; 05-18-2017 at 03:37 PM.
05-18-2017, 05:58 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
M3231: did you put a paint meter on the car and what were the results? is the paint original?
so you found no proof of an accident and you think that is proof? haha.
errors on carfax can be fixed btw.
they are an excellent source of info but not always correct.
you should have kept the 964 btw
so you found no proof of an accident and you think that is proof? haha.
errors on carfax can be fixed btw.
they are an excellent source of info but not always correct.
you should have kept the 964 btw
05-22-2017, 11:50 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away....
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The carfax typically picks up records of the VIN.
Yes, there could be an error in the facts or the dates could very well be wrong, therefore local police search etc wouldnt really be the way to find it IMO.
A Porsche cetified Bodyshop would be able to tell if the vehicle was accident repaired.
It might take the removal of a bumper or panel, but im pretty sure they could find it.
(The trained eye knows what to look for.)
I too have had the bullchit marketing company call me to list my car... bunch of morons. Not car people. Basically a scam.
You should have never given them any money or used their services. We already have ebay for mass marketing at our fingertips.
I am sure your car was good condition as stated however that dosnt rule out the carfax.... It could very well have been repaired and gone un noticed.
Until a trained eye (and i mean a real porsche trained eye) gets inside or somebody does a bare metal paint job you cant know for sure.
This car will carry this red flag for the rest of it's life which is unfortunate if it is not factual.
Yes, there could be an error in the facts or the dates could very well be wrong, therefore local police search etc wouldnt really be the way to find it IMO.
A Porsche cetified Bodyshop would be able to tell if the vehicle was accident repaired.
It might take the removal of a bumper or panel, but im pretty sure they could find it.
(The trained eye knows what to look for.)
I too have had the bullchit marketing company call me to list my car... bunch of morons. Not car people. Basically a scam.
You should have never given them any money or used their services. We already have ebay for mass marketing at our fingertips.
I am sure your car was good condition as stated however that dosnt rule out the carfax.... It could very well have been repaired and gone un noticed.
Until a trained eye (and i mean a real porsche trained eye) gets inside or somebody does a bare metal paint job you cant know for sure.
This car will carry this red flag for the rest of it's life which is unfortunate if it is not factual.