OMG ! My nuts, what a pain
11-02-2013, 12:21 PM
#1
OMG ! My nuts, what a pain
Hmmm, and a big GRRRRR
My wheel nuts on the neon, So Yesterday I was going to swap to winters.
And do you thing that was an easy job?
(pre-amble - about 3 weeks ago had it in dealer for front pads/rotors (warped) and rear clylinder leaking) I got it done at service desk guys discount)
SO.... could I take these bastards nuts of, I even used a breaker bar, NOPE
So I took said car to garage (my contact wasnt there) and let rip at the first CSR, "having spent nearly $600, I'm in a rush trying to swap my wheel and if you've warped my new rotors, you'll be swapping them out"
(you get the point)
SO in front of me, they managed to "JUST" break 90% of the wheel nuts, 2 where stuck fast. So I watched the car in the workshop, and it took them over 30 minutes, with all there tools, 2 people and on a hoist, hammer and long leverage bar and power tools.
In the end they had to break to the nuts and replace them. Got the car back with an apology.
The service guy said, (he noticed my breaker bar had a 16point nut instead of a 6 pointer) also I'd used anitsieze on the threads, he coulndt confirm why the nuts where stuck just that they where.
So got the car home, and I tried again, I "STILL" had a bitch of a problem tryng to break them, 1 even broke my breaker bar ratchet mechanism, so went to Princess Auto and replaced it with one without the ratchet and got a 6 pointer. THis kinda solved the problem, I went around and made sure I could break the bolts....
So questions please...
1> These yo-yo's have done this before and use some kinda attachment to the impact driver which is supposed to automatically torque the bolts, other tire places in Canada have always torqued up by hand? Is this what is screwing up my nuts, they "said" that the nuts are torqed fine due to this attachment.
2> My new breaker bar has a note saying doint exceed xxxft/lbs and dont use an extension bar... is there a problem with using an extension bar?
3> I usually put anti-sieze (copperslip) on the threads/ nuts etc is this bad?
4> I notice when trying to break and also torquing the bolts I get a bad "sqeeuling" noise (the wheels are alloys)
thanks and I friggin hate wheel nuts
My wheel nuts on the neon, So Yesterday I was going to swap to winters.
And do you thing that was an easy job?
(pre-amble - about 3 weeks ago had it in dealer for front pads/rotors (warped) and rear clylinder leaking) I got it done at service desk guys discount)
SO.... could I take these bastards nuts of, I even used a breaker bar, NOPE
So I took said car to garage (my contact wasnt there) and let rip at the first CSR, "having spent nearly $600, I'm in a rush trying to swap my wheel and if you've warped my new rotors, you'll be swapping them out"
(you get the point)
SO in front of me, they managed to "JUST" break 90% of the wheel nuts, 2 where stuck fast. So I watched the car in the workshop, and it took them over 30 minutes, with all there tools, 2 people and on a hoist, hammer and long leverage bar and power tools.
In the end they had to break to the nuts and replace them. Got the car back with an apology.
The service guy said, (he noticed my breaker bar had a 16point nut instead of a 6 pointer) also I'd used anitsieze on the threads, he coulndt confirm why the nuts where stuck just that they where.
So got the car home, and I tried again, I "STILL" had a bitch of a problem tryng to break them, 1 even broke my breaker bar ratchet mechanism, so went to Princess Auto and replaced it with one without the ratchet and got a 6 pointer. THis kinda solved the problem, I went around and made sure I could break the bolts....
So questions please...
1> These yo-yo's have done this before and use some kinda attachment to the impact driver which is supposed to automatically torque the bolts, other tire places in Canada have always torqued up by hand? Is this what is screwing up my nuts, they "said" that the nuts are torqed fine due to this attachment.
2> My new breaker bar has a note saying doint exceed xxxft/lbs and dont use an extension bar... is there a problem with using an extension bar?
3> I usually put anti-sieze (copperslip) on the threads/ nuts etc is this bad?
4> I notice when trying to break and also torquing the bolts I get a bad "sqeeuling" noise (the wheels are alloys)
thanks and I friggin hate wheel nuts
11-02-2013, 02:15 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Typically, greasing wheel studs or bolts is not advised. It prevents accurate torquing. If you're swapping tires every 6 months, you shouldn't find them seizing due to corrosion.
I remove with an air gun, driven by a big compressor, but always reinstall using a light duty cordless impact driver, just to speed them on, then set torque with my torque wrench, without any anti-seize. I DO put anti seize on the face of the hub, the surface that the wheel seats on to avoid difficulties in wheel removal. Never had a problem in 10 years+ of doing this.
Rk
I remove with an air gun, driven by a big compressor, but always reinstall using a light duty cordless impact driver, just to speed them on, then set torque with my torque wrench, without any anti-seize. I DO put anti seize on the face of the hub, the surface that the wheel seats on to avoid difficulties in wheel removal. Never had a problem in 10 years+ of doing this.
Rk
11-02-2013, 05:31 PM
#4
Thanks, that makes sense re the anti-sieze,
I think I read another thread on here about this attachment that garages use, that are putting either too much torque
OR the nuts where cross threaded?
I'll make sure there done by hand next time, however, not planing on doing anymore major work (afaik )
Or at least make sure I can break the nuts with my breaker bar first b4 I leave
I think I read another thread on here about this attachment that garages use, that are putting either too much torque
OR the nuts where cross threaded?
I'll make sure there done by hand next time, however, not planing on doing anymore major work (afaik
)Or at least make sure I can break the nuts with my breaker bar first b4 I leave
Typically, greasing wheel studs or bolts is not advised. It prevents accurate torquing. If you're swapping tires every 6 months, you shouldn't find them seizing due to corrosion.
I remove with an air gun, driven by a big compressor, but always reinstall using a light duty cordless impact driver, just to speed them on, then set torque with my torque wrench, without any anti-seize. I DO put anti seize on the face of the hub, the surface that the wheel seats on to avoid difficulties in wheel removal. Never had a problem in 10 years+ of doing this.
Rk
I remove with an air gun, driven by a big compressor, but always reinstall using a light duty cordless impact driver, just to speed them on, then set torque with my torque wrench, without any anti-seize. I DO put anti seize on the face of the hub, the surface that the wheel seats on to avoid difficulties in wheel removal. Never had a problem in 10 years+ of doing this.
Rk
11-02-2013, 05:42 PM
#5
Race Car
I've had wheels on and off countless cars, in some cases having been through several years without the nuts being cracked. Never have I been unable to get them off, using nothing more than a 2-foot bar. I've had to put all my weight on the bar before (literally standing on it) but I've always been able to get them loose.
Unless that Neon had several hundred thousand kms since the nuts were last off, there's something wrong. And I've never heard of using anti-seize or any other compound on wheel nuts. They don't undergo heat cycling like engine and exhaust components do, and they're only torqued to 90 ft/lbs, so it's completely unnecessary.
I do exactly what Robinson described, with the exception of anti-seize on the hub. Never thought of that.
Unless that Neon had several hundred thousand kms since the nuts were last off, there's something wrong. And I've never heard of using anti-seize or any other compound on wheel nuts. They don't undergo heat cycling like engine and exhaust components do, and they're only torqued to 90 ft/lbs, so it's completely unnecessary.
I do exactly what Robinson described, with the exception of anti-seize on the hub. Never thought of that.
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11-03-2013, 10:22 AM
#8
Thats exactly what I found Christien,
The neons wheels have been off several times this year including once to put the summers on and then I took and put them on and off.
No problem cracking them, I think they either cross threaded them or torqued it up to ****, I'll accept I should really have used a 6 point lug nut adaptor, that makes it easier, but if they couldnt get them off with an impact driver, lift and 2 people, what chance had I.
Also if I'd had a flat, CAA would never have been able to change the tire !
I'll next time make sure I can break them before I leave the place
The neons wheels have been off several times this year including once to put the summers on and then I took and put them on and off.
No problem cracking them, I think they either cross threaded them or torqued it up to ****, I'll accept I should really have used a 6 point lug nut adaptor, that makes it easier, but if they couldnt get them off with an impact driver, lift and 2 people, what chance had I.
Also if I'd had a flat, CAA would never have been able to change the tire !
I'll next time make sure I can break them before I leave the place
I've had wheels on and off countless cars, in some cases having been through several years without the nuts being cracked. Never have I been unable to get them off, using nothing more than a 2-foot bar. I've had to put all my weight on the bar before (literally standing on it) but I've always been able to get them loose.
Unless that Neon had several hundred thousand kms since the nuts were last off, there's something wrong. And I've never heard of using anti-seize or any other compound on wheel nuts. They don't undergo heat cycling like engine and exhaust components do, and they're only torqued to 90 ft/lbs, so it's completely unnecessary.
I do exactly what Robinson described, with the exception of anti-seize on the hub. Never thought of that.
Unless that Neon had several hundred thousand kms since the nuts were last off, there's something wrong. And I've never heard of using anti-seize or any other compound on wheel nuts. They don't undergo heat cycling like engine and exhaust components do, and they're only torqued to 90 ft/lbs, so it's completely unnecessary.
I do exactly what Robinson described, with the exception of anti-seize on the hub. Never thought of that.
11-03-2013, 11:15 AM
#12
Drifting
Just for discussion, I'm not recommending that others use anti-seize on lug nuts but what do others out there do, if/when you get corrosion on or the lug studs start rusting over time, besides paying a few hundred $$ to replace them all what are you to do?
Even if you clean up the studs with a thread cutter the corrosion does come back during the winter season. It's a pain in the **** if you've ever broken 2 out of 4 studs where the wheels were installed correctly and torqued to manufactures spec.
Clarification: "broken" meaning snapped or twisted off. May happen or high end or less expensive, older cars. Have to remove hub and possible bearings to replace studs.
Even if you clean up the studs with a thread cutter the corrosion does come back during the winter season. It's a pain in the **** if you've ever broken 2 out of 4 studs where the wheels were installed correctly and torqued to manufactures spec.
Clarification: "broken" meaning snapped or twisted off. May happen or high end or less expensive, older cars. Have to remove hub and possible bearings to replace studs.
Last edited by Mark Lue; 11-03-2013 at 11:23 AM. Reason: clarification
11-03-2013, 02:52 PM
#13
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Seen this discussion a few times. Porsche specifies anti-seize be used on its lug bolts on 987 & 997 - on thread and between bolt head and hemi-sherical washer.
Torque is spec'd on fasteners to achieve a specific pre load tension in the fastener. It's only an approximate method but short of measuring deformation of the fastener probably the best. For this to be accurate, you want minimal friction on the threads so that the force applied is most closely related to the preload tension and a lubricant is required for this.
When I converted my 997 to studs for track work, I initially didn't use anti-seize and found the nuts were really sticking against the wheel. I started using just a thin smear on the thread and on the nut surface bearing against the wheel and torquing became much more repeatable - including breaking the nuts free.
YMMV but I always put anti seize on all my cars' wheel lugs now ...
Cheers
Torque is spec'd on fasteners to achieve a specific pre load tension in the fastener. It's only an approximate method but short of measuring deformation of the fastener probably the best. For this to be accurate, you want minimal friction on the threads so that the force applied is most closely related to the preload tension and a lubricant is required for this.
When I converted my 997 to studs for track work, I initially didn't use anti-seize and found the nuts were really sticking against the wheel. I started using just a thin smear on the thread and on the nut surface bearing against the wheel and torquing became much more repeatable - including breaking the nuts free.
YMMV but I always put anti seize on all my cars' wheel lugs now ...
Cheers
11-03-2013, 04:09 PM
#14
I found a post from someone who works at tire rack
"Antiseize makes it nearly impossible to accurately torque the lugs. Its lubricating effects allow the lugs to be tightened further than they should be, which can lead to uneven torque among the studs, overtorquing, and potentially damage to the wheel or studs. It is not the end of the world, but it is definitely not optimal. "
I'm wondering if that caused (in my case) the over tightening of the lug nuts?
"Antiseize makes it nearly impossible to accurately torque the lugs. Its lubricating effects allow the lugs to be tightened further than they should be, which can lead to uneven torque among the studs, overtorquing, and potentially damage to the wheel or studs. It is not the end of the world, but it is definitely not optimal. "
I'm wondering if that caused (in my case) the over tightening of the lug nuts?
11-04-2013, 11:57 AM
#15
Race Car
I have a bit of anti-seize on all my wheels. Always have just to make my life easier.
As far as it effecting torque specs .....when was the last time you had your $50 torque wrench calibrated?
As far as it effecting torque specs .....when was the last time you had your $50 torque wrench calibrated?