Jaak Lepson

Ah ... so who pays to build the "on-line"? I build it and then others get a free ride on my sweat. The small firms decided to use my network to undercut me ... fair, eh. You want more, I have to make the pipe bigger at my cost so you can download more at a small cost? Great business model ... won't be around too much longer. <You being the user> The Internet is not free ... it has to be built and maintained with congestion relief. If "we" did not do this ... everyone would complain about the service ... You want to ride the bus, pay the fare. Want to eat more at the buffet ... pay more. Simple ...

Everyone wants more and more and at faster rates for less cost ... who builds the pipe? You want the pipe ... go build it. Think of it as a food pig at the buffet who keeps stacking the lobster and roast beef onto their plate leaving very little for others and they demand that their tab should be less??? People need to see what the "cloud" is made up of ... and it ain't free.


BTW ... this is my thoughts being in the business. It is and does NOT represent any company's views, statements or corporate policy!!!

These are MY VIEWS.

Torontoworker

NO. Think of it this way. They keep inviting everyone to use THEIR (I could list the table full of bandwidth grabbing services such as Rogers has - but you already know the list) services leaving very little for everyone else and then decide after all these invites go out and millions show up to eat that they have not increased the amount of tables. Oh says Mr. Rogers and Mrs Bell, guess we'll just reduce the plate sizes and maybe even take away a few tables. Hey, I got another idea, lets charge them more for less - that should cut the lines down to size. Typical backwoods Canadian business thinking. Can't have a monopoly - can't make any money then.


Interesting quote today; 'Anyone not upset by what the industry has done - must WORK in the industry.

pongobaz

+1. Please step away from the keg of Kool Aid.

Jaak Lepson

Huh????

So ... I build the table, store cook the food ... and I have to allow others in and they keep the proceeds? The two providers you listed above built their networks at a large cost ... and now others get to ride on it without paying?

BTW .. when the plates were built the amount of "food" that was consumed/carried was more than enough the "feed: the masses. Along comes others who want tons more and expect to pay the same as those that use normal sized plates? To add all the extras ... more "tables", "plates" and another large addition needs to be built to accommodate the larger demand ... and at a five star rating. Who pays for it??? You want more ... pay for it and you get your own set of tables so you won't be elbowing the others at the buffet table.

I get nothing more because of the increase ... I used to have to stay late and work nights to make the tables bigger and add more plates ... not fun ... just added to the workload.

I should stay out of this as I do work for a service provider ... work on the inside and see. It's easy to sit on the outside and cast stones when one does not see what is involved. Point is ... eat more ... pay more ...

Jaak Lepson

... ah ... who owns the network and needs to add to it to keep everyone well fed? It don't come for free. Difference between the 401 and 407 ...

Torontoworker

Canadians built the telecoms system in this country through years of insane pricing and the Government 'allowed' protection from competition for much too long.

They ARE paying and there was no problem from Bell UNTIL they saw their future changing and they didn't have a hand out picking your pocket. Monopolies like dictators never like change for obvious reasons.

Please. If you think this is about 4.7 percent of the total market then your trying to fool us. Want usage billing do you? You gonna suggest to your boss that they give back millions of dollars in fees for all those people who pay 30 bucks and use 2% of their allowance? Right. THAT'S the big scam and one the telecoms don't want to get out to people. Making me pay a fee to cut off my phone? A whole month of billings so I can cancel? Fluck them!


Forget it. Not going to argue any longer. Its like arguing with a TTC worker about why they get to stop the bus and make me wait while they take 10 minutes to get a coffee and in the next breath being told that not enough people use transit so we have to raise fares. You can only screw people for so long before they rise up.

gteehan

I can run with this analogy...

I don't eat at the MandaRogers buffet - can't stand the service there. I prefer the small buffet down the street. Unfortunately, the big buffet supplies the food to the small one and the idiot mayor is only letting each customer have a single appetizer for the same price they used to pay for a full meal. That said, the mayor is convinced that the appetizer will fill up the majority of townsfolk for years to come. If you want to eat anything else, and you will, that appetizer is crazy small, you'll need to pay for it individually. Those a la carte add-ons are gonna cost you too, he know's you're bloody famished. Oh, and they stopped serving that lobster you loved so much. The supplier went back to the US - it was WAY too expensive for people in Canada.

The small buffet does get their food a little slower. That's because the big buffet only needs to sell the slower food to the other restaurants. That's cool though, they built a good portion of that kitchen (with the help of those townsfolk) so it kinda makes sense that they keep the fast food for their hungry customers. Here's the issue - That kitchen needs an upgrade, it's not been kept up with the times. That sometimes happens when there aren't many restaurants to compete with. I remember ten years ago they had some of the best and fastest food out there. Things have changed though - As of last summer only Mexico and Poland delivered food slower (OECD ranking).

*Sigh* Maybe one day we can get food served as fast as Moldova.

Last thing, I heard a rumour that some of the restaurant owners were having an affair with the idiot mayor - can you imagine?

The mind boggles.

Jaak Lepson

There nothing stopping anyone from building their own network. Go ye forth and build ... Hydros are doing it ... gas is looking at it ... hell, some Municipalities are looking at doing it.

gteehan

That's near impossible in Canada and you know it.

Rogers and the like were granted fiefdoms by the government. They were able to operate with impunity from competition for years. As such, they were able to raise the billions of dollars required to build out their infrastructure.

No fiefdom, no immunity from competition, no financing.

Welcome back to reality.

Imo000

When I saw the Netflix Canada comercials a while ago, the first thing came to my mind was that Blockbuster and Rogers Video are not going to like this one bit. Then a few couple weeks ago, the news about capping services and increasing them at a significant cost surfaced. It doesn't take a genius to see that there has to be some corelation between this. Netflix, if it allowed to stay in business, will destroy the video rental industry. If they are allowed to do this, other US companies will follow. The next is services like Skype. They are a direct threat to the conventional phone companies. As a matter of fact, anything that can be done online is a competition to the "old school" market and considering how powerfull these huge comapnies are, it's not spurisig that charging extra for data is their only way to try stopping the natural progress of the internet.

Jaak Lepson

Incorrect ... there are at least 5 to 10 out there who provide the service, Alstream being one of them. There is nothing stopping anyone from starting a firm up. Hydro's are doing it especially in Mississauga. They also have place WiFi sites all over the place where you can connect to. The big thing is the cost to build an infrastructure ... need lots of capital ... That is all that stops other providers from opening up ... they want to ride on existing infrastructure.

BTW ... the cable companies are still not considered as telcos ... even though they provide the service. They are placed under Private Service providers. The original Telco's have the Government protection including the right to make at least 12% profit. They are also provided with easement rights which Cable Co's do not have. Those that have easement rights also include Gas & Hydro. They are protected. Find a copy of the Telcom Act ... you'll find it interesting reading.

JimV8

On the news just now. The protest has gotten the attention of Ottawa. Should be interesting to see what comes of it.

pongobaz

Jaak,
I think you're missing the point. UBB is not a fair billing system and here's why:
let's say I pay $40 per month for 60GB of usage, but I only use 30GB on average. Why don't I get $20 back? Or why can't I roll over my unused 30GB and bank them for when I might use them; I've already paid for those GBs, right?
Instead it's a use it or lose it system and if I do go over on occasion I'll get slapped with an outrageous $2 per GB fee! It's completely a 1 way street; all the rights to the provider and none to the customer. I dunno, but it reeks of a monopoly.

gteehan

I agree Jaak, the free market should work, but it can't. You're either giving half the info or not fully understanding the environment.

Small point of contention before I move on to the free market: A good portion of the infrastructure was paid for by tax payers.

Unfortunately, the free market isn't allowed to function thanks to the CRTC. For example, the CRTC prevents anyone else from laying lines in areas where they exist. This is precisely why they HAVE to rent their lines to others (like TekSavvy). Again, so it's crystal clear. No one is ALLOWED to compete.

Here's an idea that I know you'll agree with Jaak. ACTUALLY open up the market for competition - even foreign. These guys need a fire under their *** or they'll let the next 10 years slide by too.

BlueRiver86

We fought this in my city and won, and we only have one ISP. http://topnews.us/content/24886-time...-plan-put-hold