and you thought IMS was scary
01-25-2011, 09:20 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Greg,
The car cited in the 1st post was a 996TT and Farzaan's GT3 has a significant amount of tracktime on it (far more than average). Eventually something will let go on a tracked car, it's just a matter of when. I don't think that's enough to say that any one series of engines are unreliable.
As these cars get older and more and more high stress life is applied to them, we will uncover more and more issues that need remedying, this press fitting for instance. Your C4S has seen a metric f**kton of track days as well and while i'm sure you're spot on with your maintenance schedules, a worn plastic line bracket could finally let go, a hose tear, an ______ happen, etc....
What's the solution proposed to the fitting problem? Just put a saftey loop on it?
The car cited in the 1st post was a 996TT and Farzaan's GT3 has a significant amount of tracktime on it (far more than average). Eventually something will let go on a tracked car, it's just a matter of when. I don't think that's enough to say that any one series of engines are unreliable.
As these cars get older and more and more high stress life is applied to them, we will uncover more and more issues that need remedying, this press fitting for instance. Your C4S has seen a metric f**kton of track days as well and while i'm sure you're spot on with your maintenance schedules, a worn plastic line bracket could finally let go, a hose tear, an ______ happen, etc....
What's the solution proposed to the fitting problem? Just put a saftey loop on it?
01-25-2011, 10:11 PM
#32
Drifting
01-25-2011, 10:15 PM
#33
Pocket Sand
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Omar this seams to bea real problem as Greg points out .. Even exellence had an article on it showing all the failure points and remedied fixes .. sure you will get more wear and tear at a track .. all the more reason to address the known weak areas of the car .. these are actually robust cars with robust engines . i just don't know how robsust they will be if they are running at a track or on the highway and dump coolant .. even a " minor" leak . will casue coolant to pour out and the engine to over heat . overheating an aluminum engine could be bad news even if you do it once. Certainly worth checking the areas Greg points out for leaks..
Was there any sign of these lines leaking before they simply let go?
01-25-2011, 10:20 PM
#34
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As for the reasons its actually run in racing...well, thats for spillage saftey. If we didn't live in a country where it becomes -30, running distilled water w/ water wetter in the systems would be a no brainer. safer on the track, slightly better cooling and compatible with all series's/lapping day organizations.
Btw, any decision on that 1:18th scale 787 B we were talking about?
01-25-2011, 10:47 PM
#35
...on the last run of the weekend, after debating whether to go out or go home early, as I recall. Glad you ended up in the pit entrance, and not somewhere else!
01-25-2011, 11:12 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Ah, good times...not!
01-25-2011, 11:18 PM
#37
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
You are correct. Water has the most cooling properties (forgot the technical term for it) compared to Alcohol or Methanol, as I recall from reading up about auxiliary injection. the same heat transfer principle applies in the case of the cooling system.
As for the reasons its actually run in racing...well, thats for spillage saftey. If we didn't live in a country where it becomes -30, running distilled water w/ water wetter in the systems would be a no brainer. safer on the track, slightly better cooling and compatible with all series's/lapping day organizations.
Btw, any decision on that 1:18th scale 787 B we were talking about?
As for the reasons its actually run in racing...well, thats for spillage saftey. If we didn't live in a country where it becomes -30, running distilled water w/ water wetter in the systems would be a no brainer. safer on the track, slightly better cooling and compatible with all series's/lapping day organizations.
Btw, any decision on that 1:18th scale 787 B we were talking about?
I am no expert and I could be wrong but does water wetter provide the same thing that our long life coolant does.
Anyways for a daily driver in Canada it seems a bit much to change coolant every season.
01-26-2011, 12:28 AM
#38
Race Director
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=74&pcid=10
Unique agent for cooling systems that doubles the wetting ability of water
Rust and corrosion protection allows for use of straight water in racing or reduced antifreeze levels in warm climates
Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature
May allow more spark advance for increase power and efficiency
Use one bottle for most passenger cars and light trucks, treats 3 to 5 gallons or 13.2 to 15.9 liters. Vehicles with larger cooling systems should use two bottles. Small cooling systems should use 1oz (3 to 4 capfuls) per quart
Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOLTM and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems
Satisfies ASTM D2570 and ASTM D1384 corrosion tests for glycol-based antifreezes
Reduces or eliminates bubbles or vapor barrier that form on hot metal surfaces to reduce coolant temperatures by up to 20°
Superior heat transfer properties compared to glycol-based antifreeze
Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOL and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems
Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature
Designed for use with all modern aluminum, cast iron, copper, brass and bronze cooling systems
Cleans and lubricates water pump seals
Reduces cavitation and complexes with hard water to reduce scaling
Does not lower cooling system below the thermostatically-controlled temperature
Many guys run GT3 Cup engines for 100 hrs. before a rebuild. See Cup Car forum for details. The RSR however requires more frequent rebuilds. A Rennsport member from Quebec City has one.
I have found my car runs 10-20 degrees cooler than before based upon the gauge on the dash.
GT3 engines are extremely similar to those in the Cup version.
Unique agent for cooling systems that doubles the wetting ability of water
Rust and corrosion protection allows for use of straight water in racing or reduced antifreeze levels in warm climates
Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature
May allow more spark advance for increase power and efficiency
Use one bottle for most passenger cars and light trucks, treats 3 to 5 gallons or 13.2 to 15.9 liters. Vehicles with larger cooling systems should use two bottles. Small cooling systems should use 1oz (3 to 4 capfuls) per quart
Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOLTM and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems
Satisfies ASTM D2570 and ASTM D1384 corrosion tests for glycol-based antifreezes
Reduces or eliminates bubbles or vapor barrier that form on hot metal surfaces to reduce coolant temperatures by up to 20°
Superior heat transfer properties compared to glycol-based antifreeze
Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOL and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems
Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature
Designed for use with all modern aluminum, cast iron, copper, brass and bronze cooling systems
Cleans and lubricates water pump seals
Reduces cavitation and complexes with hard water to reduce scaling
Does not lower cooling system below the thermostatically-controlled temperature
Many guys run GT3 Cup engines for 100 hrs. before a rebuild. See Cup Car forum for details. The RSR however requires more frequent rebuilds. A Rennsport member from Quebec City has one.
I have found my car runs 10-20 degrees cooler than before based upon the gauge on the dash.
GT3 engines are extremely similar to those in the Cup version.
01-26-2011, 12:36 AM
#39
RL Community Team
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I know Motorcycles are usually forbidden to use coolant on the track.
Water Wetter is the key for bikes.
Anyone ever use "Water Wetter" in car?
Water Wetter is the key for bikes.
Anyone ever use "Water Wetter" in car?
01-26-2011, 09:22 AM
#41
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Running water wetter still doesn't fix the problem though. For a car out of warranty, loss of the track day cost, tow truck and then the mechanic bill. Is not something I would like to happen to me.
Also water wetter is still slippery as is even just water, though it evaporates and is much easier to clean up.
Also water wetter is still slippery as is even just water, though it evaporates and is much easier to clean up.
01-26-2011, 10:04 AM
#42
Race Director
Running water wetter still doesn't fix the problem though. For a car out of warranty, loss of the track day cost, tow truck and then the mechanic bill. Is not something I would like to happen to me.
Also water wetter is still slippery as is even just water, though it evaporates and is much easier to clean up.
Also water wetter is still slippery as is even just water, though it evaporates and is much easier to clean up.
Water and water wetter is much less slippery than the silicone based coolant modern Porsches use.
I too wish Porsche would fix this problem that afflicts some Turbos, GT2s and GT3s. Just reapplying the bonding agent and hoping it doesn't happen again does not adequately address the problem nor does it inspire much confidence.
01-26-2011, 05:27 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
I just looked and couldn't find the article I thought I read in panorama on this with 5 choices to fix this. has anybody else read this article? and was it in panorama?
the problem is the result of adding water to an engine not designed for water (gt1)
the problem is the result of adding water to an engine not designed for water (gt1)
