Fantino's mad stunt racing law upheld
03-18-2010, 02:49 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Fantino's mad stunt racing law upheld
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2697902
The guy is responsible for the worst laws imaginable.
The guy is responsible for the worst laws imaginable.
03-18-2010, 04:00 PM
#4
Intermediate
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The way I read the article. At least now, you will be allowed a defence, so I am assuming that they won't automatically seize your vehicle.
It is always such a sad sight to see someone's car being towed. Usually the cars that I see are ordinary cars, no rice rockets, no turbo'd uberwagens, just mom/pop cars 'going a little faster than the traffic'.
It is always such a sad sight to see someone's car being towed. Usually the cars that I see are ordinary cars, no rice rockets, no turbo'd uberwagens, just mom/pop cars 'going a little faster than the traffic'.
03-18-2010, 04:04 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Durham Region/GTA East, Canada
Posts: 1,380
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
It means to me that I should just enjoy my 944 cab, and focus on selling my barely streetlegal racecar.
I rely on my car for a long commute to work, so getting nailed speeding is now not worth it, as I would likely end up loosing my job as well with no licence to get me around.
I gave up on driving my cop magnet. I worry more about being pulled over than I do about enjoying a nice cruise. I feel a bit like I've been beaten by "the man"
I've seen it coming for a long time now.
I rely on my car for a long commute to work, so getting nailed speeding is now not worth it, as I would likely end up loosing my job as well with no licence to get me around.
I gave up on driving my cop magnet. I worry more about being pulled over than I do about enjoying a nice cruise. I feel a bit like I've been beaten by "the man"
I've seen it coming for a long time now.
03-18-2010, 04:14 PM
#6
Drifting
The article is poorly structured.
It's NOT 'up to' - it's OVER 50. We already have the HTA covering speeding from 1 over to 50 over.
So is the judge saying they must charge all people going OVER 50 with stunting??? And by the by, they cannot MAKE law which they appear to be doing - they can only strike down laws or set aside convictions. They have only done part of this and in fact - seem to take the Governments view by ordering a new trial and not absolving the person. They can not order the Government to create an 'instant' law called "aggravated speeding." It's simply not part of the act - this has to be the reporters words or slant.
Illogical! The end result is the SAME THING. Even without the stunting law - the Police have been given the power to take your car - it's in the act. Thats the WHOLE POINT of the protest over what the Government has allowed it's Police forces to do.
And what "due diligence" defence are you going to have when the methods of investigation for simple speeding and stunt driving are the same? Officer: I caught the defendant on radar going 160kph in a posted 100kph section of the highway. I then took his car. How is this different then the same speed under the simple speeding section of the Act?
How is this a win for the public?? Now she has to spend even more money on a new trial. Remember it's about HER speeding charge - nothing changed concerning your car and bank account getting a one week holiday. In fact it's a real FAIL because now it has to go to a higher court $$$$$$ and this Grandmother - unless shes funded by someone - won't take it higher.
I fail to see Fantino's reaction going to stroke level as really - his officers may have to do a little more work in court, unless the courts ruled - 'no towing before conviction' the mob/biker run tow companies are still happy - business as usual.
If a driver is charged under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act with speeding of up to 50 kilometres over the limit, it will still be an "absolute liability" offence, since the penalties are fines and not potential jail terms.
So is the judge saying they must charge all people going OVER 50 with stunting??? And by the by, they cannot MAKE law which they appear to be doing - they can only strike down laws or set aside convictions. They have only done part of this and in fact - seem to take the Governments view by ordering a new trial and not absolving the person. They can not order the Government to create an 'instant' law called "aggravated speeding." It's simply not part of the act - this has to be the reporters words or slant.
But if the charge is stunt driving, then a driver is entitled to present a "due diligence" defence, that reasonable steps were taken to speed by less than 50 kilometres.
And what "due diligence" defence are you going to have when the methods of investigation for simple speeding and stunt driving are the same? Officer: I caught the defendant on radar going 160kph in a posted 100kph section of the highway. I then took his car. How is this different then the same speed under the simple speeding section of the Act?
In ordering a new trial for Ms. Raham, the court noted that she will now be permitted at her re-trial to "advance a due diligence defence" to explain why she was speeding.
I fail to see Fantino's reaction going to stroke level as really - his officers may have to do a little more work in court, unless the courts ruled - 'no towing before conviction' the mob/biker run tow companies are still happy - business as usual.
Last edited by Torontoworker; 03-18-2010 at 04:19 PM. Reason: Spelling
03-18-2010, 07:20 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BFD. 50km/h over is excessive. Blowing past people who are driving close to the limit is dangerous because most people just aren't paying attention. This isn't the race track where everyone is focused on driving. This is your average road where soccer moms are dealing with screaming kids, people are yakking on the cell phone or otherwise not paying attention.
Even if the limit is 100 and speedy commuting traffic is doing 130, there is no need to go 150. If you do then enjoy the walk home. There are too many idiots out there. Young puss heads who after two years of driving think they know everything as well as people in their 50's who aren't paying attention.
Save it for the track.
Even if the limit is 100 and speedy commuting traffic is doing 130, there is no need to go 150. If you do then enjoy the walk home. There are too many idiots out there. Young puss heads who after two years of driving think they know everything as well as people in their 50's who aren't paying attention.
Save it for the track.
Trending Topics
03-18-2010, 07:49 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know and I really don't give a crap about them. Wasn't one of the early guys charged a senior? Bottom line, 50km/h over is excessive. Period. The vast majority of folks out there aren't qualified to drive that fast and for the very few who are, the rest of the traffic isn't expecting people to zip by them and they can freak out, spill their Starbucks while yelling at their kids and lose control of their minivan, etc. People also do stupid things like unsafe lane changes without looking. Now have that happen in front of a guy flying along going 40km/h faster than the idiot lane changer....BOOM! Now you have a leading story on the evening news.
From what I've read about Fantino I think he's an idiot. That aside, anyone whining about getting a car taken for a week when a person was voluntarily speeding at 50+km/h over the limit.....give your head a shake.
From what I've read about Fantino I think he's an idiot. That aside, anyone whining about getting a car taken for a week when a person was voluntarily speeding at 50+km/h over the limit.....give your head a shake.
03-18-2010, 07:56 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Hmmm, Allan I can't agree with that at all.
FYI: this morning I was in a cab that took me to the airport at 4:30 am. The driver drove her older Mercedes E-class TDI between 170 and 180 km/h. 14 hours later I got into another taxi and the driver drove his much newer Lincoln Town Car at 110 km/h. First one wasn't speeding as it was on the Autobahn in Leipzig, the second was speeding as he was on Hwy 427 in Toronto. Guess which one I felt more comfortable in? And yes you do blow past others on the autobahn who are doing 100 or so (buses, trucks, etc...). 150 is NOT excessive if drivers have the right discipline, but our idiotic government don't want to invest in proper driver's education as it is not as profitable as the penalties and fines that are in place right now. Everything in this country is set to the lowest common denominator; some kids in modified civics kill themselves and some innocent bystanders and suddenly we need "street racing laws" that affect everyone?
C'mon this isn't about "saving it for the track" it's about having reasonable speed limits on our highways that allow for efficient commuting.
FYI: this morning I was in a cab that took me to the airport at 4:30 am. The driver drove her older Mercedes E-class TDI between 170 and 180 km/h. 14 hours later I got into another taxi and the driver drove his much newer Lincoln Town Car at 110 km/h. First one wasn't speeding as it was on the Autobahn in Leipzig, the second was speeding as he was on Hwy 427 in Toronto. Guess which one I felt more comfortable in? And yes you do blow past others on the autobahn who are doing 100 or so (buses, trucks, etc...). 150 is NOT excessive if drivers have the right discipline, but our idiotic government don't want to invest in proper driver's education as it is not as profitable as the penalties and fines that are in place right now. Everything in this country is set to the lowest common denominator; some kids in modified civics kill themselves and some innocent bystanders and suddenly we need "street racing laws" that affect everyone?
C'mon this isn't about "saving it for the track" it's about having reasonable speed limits on our highways that allow for efficient commuting.
03-18-2010, 08:02 PM
#11
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto, Dubai, Kuwait & Bombay
Posts: 6,969
Received 80 Likes
on
60 Posts
now only if the cops pulling me over werent currupt and be dumb enough to get caught by their own people... this law would might make sense For the Gov...
Last edited by Zookie; 03-18-2010 at 08:21 PM.
03-18-2010, 09:38 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds a little self-centered. Sorry.
Doing 40km/h over and not getting your car taken away for a week sounds quite reasonable to me. 
I agree with you that the majority of drivers shouldn't be out there much of the time. I bet you on any given commute from A to B, there will be times when most drivers shouldn't be in the car. They aren't paying attention all the time. Now why do you want to share the road with them doing something they wouldn't expect? I don't get it. Give yourself a chance to see them and react accordingly. Going much faster than they are is giving you less of a chance to react to their stupidity and you may end up in the hospital because of it.
Protect yourself. Drive defensively, expect others to be idiots and don't do anything that will increase the chances of you smacking into them.
03-18-2010, 10:40 PM
#13
Drifting
If we follow through on the theory of excessive speed is dangerous - how does one correlate the fact that the majority of deaths on the public roadways are in 50kph zones and mainly at intersections - not 400 series highways? If you follow the news reports you'll find that injuries and deaths are NOT related to differences in speed. They are related to not obeying traffic lights, not paying attention or driving too fast for road conditions.
The data does not lie. The right wing police community love to show the public that God is on their side (He's mentioned that!!) which they hope will cow Queens Park into draconian laws; as who wants to be against God now right?
The same disinformation campaign is played out year after year. Create drama and media noise for what is essentially a self fulling agenda on easy targets. Point out and over blow issues and lobby to fix these issues with ever increasing funding, extra officers and then start the whole spiral again at the next budget year discussions.
Don't discuss real problems that result in twice as many deaths (black on black crime for one) because you don't have a solution that fits within a politically correct agenda. Wander around doing nothing in Caledonia, each level of Government pointing it's finger at the other while cowering in fear as a small group whisper the scariest word Indian Affairs can ever hear: 'OKA'. They quake in their boots upon a word whispered to them and used as threat - oh but the threat goes away with more funding of course... until the next budget year.
Yes speeders are the enemy people - the worst people on the planet and the easiest to target in order to feed the black budget holes like Caledonia and the wonderful OPP overtime payments.
I'll repeat what I said months ago. I have no problem with cops stopping speeders and writing up a summons (if going that fast) as long as people get their day in court by an unbiased JUDGE who can then decide if your car is towed for a week UPON CONVICTION.
Why is due process under attack? I think Mr. Viper (from the detector thread) is right - our Charter is not worth the paper it is written on. I've come to change my mind on this and now side with the late Rene Levesque, (in a narrow area). It wasn't all about Quebec when he rejected the Charter for his Province. He had some really great concerns against a poorly written document that he felt affected ALL Canadians.
One of his objections was the lack of protection for property rights. What we are seeing and living with today as a result is poor individual rights and it is a direct result of Pierre Trudeau's idea of powerful Governments.
Now it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to force individual rights out of the high court and these little pissant cops and yokels from Queens Park and Ottawa know it and run with it.
Off the soap box now.
The data does not lie. The right wing police community love to show the public that God is on their side (He's mentioned that!!) which they hope will cow Queens Park into draconian laws; as who wants to be against God now right?
The same disinformation campaign is played out year after year. Create drama and media noise for what is essentially a self fulling agenda on easy targets. Point out and over blow issues and lobby to fix these issues with ever increasing funding, extra officers and then start the whole spiral again at the next budget year discussions.
Don't discuss real problems that result in twice as many deaths (black on black crime for one) because you don't have a solution that fits within a politically correct agenda. Wander around doing nothing in Caledonia, each level of Government pointing it's finger at the other while cowering in fear as a small group whisper the scariest word Indian Affairs can ever hear: 'OKA'. They quake in their boots upon a word whispered to them and used as threat - oh but the threat goes away with more funding of course... until the next budget year.
Yes speeders are the enemy people - the worst people on the planet and the easiest to target in order to feed the black budget holes like Caledonia and the wonderful OPP overtime payments.
I'll repeat what I said months ago. I have no problem with cops stopping speeders and writing up a summons (if going that fast) as long as people get their day in court by an unbiased JUDGE who can then decide if your car is towed for a week UPON CONVICTION.
Why is due process under attack? I think Mr. Viper (from the detector thread) is right - our Charter is not worth the paper it is written on. I've come to change my mind on this and now side with the late Rene Levesque, (in a narrow area). It wasn't all about Quebec when he rejected the Charter for his Province. He had some really great concerns against a poorly written document that he felt affected ALL Canadians.
One of his objections was the lack of protection for property rights. What we are seeing and living with today as a result is poor individual rights and it is a direct result of Pierre Trudeau's idea of powerful Governments.
Now it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to force individual rights out of the high court and these little pissant cops and yokels from Queens Park and Ottawa know it and run with it.
Off the soap box now.
03-18-2010, 10:40 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
If we could just increase the speed limit between Oshawa and Cornwall, I'd be a happy camper. 100km/h in and around urban center is fine, but as Phil said, it's about efficient commuting, and Montreal to Toronto (which I drove again this week and will drive two more times in he next two weeks) is just plain slow... Like in the deserts in the USA: straight line, no civilization? Open up the limits...
03-19-2010, 04:05 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: cops towing immediately when someone speeds 50+km/h over: "Due process under attack?"
Gimme a break.
It's attitudes like this and the failure for people to take responsibility for their own actions that have really helped to create the giant mess we often find ourselves in.
Take a clear cut case of someone speeding 50+km/h over. (no rogue cops....no 49.5km/h over) The law says the car will be impounded. Why does the guy whine about it when he knows the law? Why do you and others think "due process" must be followed when it's simple. The guy went too fast and now he gets to walk home.
That guy should Man up, grow some ***** and take responsibility for his actions! If he didn't want to risk walking home he should've slowed down.
Just like DUI. Cops get to spend 4 hours filling out form after form after form when some bozo drinks too much at a bar and gets behind the wheel. All this because of "due process", lawyers and other legal crap. If the guy just took responsibility for his actions and accepted his punishment don't you think we'd all be better off? Instead we have a bunch of weasels trying to get out of a legal jam because they feel the punishment doesn't fit the crime they did. Tough crap! You knew the laws.....broke them....and now you get to deal with the consequences.
...and yes, I do that. When I get caught speeding I don't fight it. I have a set of ***** and accept my punishment. No questions.
This lack of personal responsibility is a real pet peeve of mine. I know some cops who don't bother writing up DUI tickets because it takes half their shift to do everything. They could be doing much better things than deal with one POS low-life. So they issue way more 24-hr suspensions then they really should because those don't take too long to do. Then they can get back to their job.
Imagine a world where everyone took their lumps and accepted responsibility for their actions. Too bad I'll never see that happen.
Gimme a break.
It's attitudes like this and the failure for people to take responsibility for their own actions that have really helped to create the giant mess we often find ourselves in.
Take a clear cut case of someone speeding 50+km/h over. (no rogue cops....no 49.5km/h over) The law says the car will be impounded. Why does the guy whine about it when he knows the law? Why do you and others think "due process" must be followed when it's simple. The guy went too fast and now he gets to walk home.
That guy should Man up, grow some ***** and take responsibility for his actions! If he didn't want to risk walking home he should've slowed down.
Just like DUI. Cops get to spend 4 hours filling out form after form after form when some bozo drinks too much at a bar and gets behind the wheel. All this because of "due process", lawyers and other legal crap. If the guy just took responsibility for his actions and accepted his punishment don't you think we'd all be better off? Instead we have a bunch of weasels trying to get out of a legal jam because they feel the punishment doesn't fit the crime they did. Tough crap! You knew the laws.....broke them....and now you get to deal with the consequences.
...and yes, I do that. When I get caught speeding I don't fight it. I have a set of ***** and accept my punishment. No questions.
This lack of personal responsibility is a real pet peeve of mine. I know some cops who don't bother writing up DUI tickets because it takes half their shift to do everything. They could be doing much better things than deal with one POS low-life. So they issue way more 24-hr suspensions then they really should because those don't take too long to do. Then they can get back to their job.
Imagine a world where everyone took their lumps and accepted responsibility for their actions. Too bad I'll never see that happen.