Mosport UCR first timer
05-29-2009, 06:56 PM
#31
Race Car
This statement has been in my head all day (really, I should be concentrating on work!) and I've thought about it a lot. You're right, most of the accidents I've seen have been on corner exits, not entries, or even mid points. I'm thinking in particular turn 9 and 10, and also 1 as you mentioned. I think I've seen more carnage at the exit of 10 than anywhere else.
05-29-2009, 08:11 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
this was just posted on ucr site:
I was just there yesterday ( Wed May 27th ) and Concession 20 is torn up for repaving from RR#57 to Liberty Street. It`s a mess if you want to keep your car clean. A suggestion would be to get off at RR#57 at Concession Road #8 at the Firehall, go east to Liberty Street and then north back to #20. - C u there, Wayne
I was just there yesterday ( Wed May 27th ) and Concession 20 is torn up for repaving from RR#57 to Liberty Street. It`s a mess if you want to keep your car clean. A suggestion would be to get off at RR#57 at Concession Road #8 at the Firehall, go east to Liberty Street and then north back to #20. - C u there, Wayne
05-29-2009, 08:33 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
this was just posted on ucr site:
I was just there yesterday ( Wed May 27th ) and Concession 20 is torn up for repaving from RR#57 to Liberty Street. It`s a mess if you want to keep your car clean. A suggestion would be to get off at RR#57 at Concession Road #8 at the Firehall, go east to Liberty Street and then north back to #20. - C u there, Wayne
I was just there yesterday ( Wed May 27th ) and Concession 20 is torn up for repaving from RR#57 to Liberty Street. It`s a mess if you want to keep your car clean. A suggestion would be to get off at RR#57 at Concession Road #8 at the Firehall, go east to Liberty Street and then north back to #20. - C u there, Wayne
05-29-2009, 09:13 PM
#36
Drifting
I have an FIA 'A' license and until last year also went down to Montreal and blue flagged F1. We're hoping F1 is back next year. I've worked all 'Indy' events since 86 at the CNE but will NOT work for Tony George and his Crap Wagons this year. I'll wait until he is overthrown (might have happened this week people rumor) and a better open wheel series races at the Ex. Perhaps the rebirth of Champ Car/CART?? You never know... Until then there is always ALMS to give me my fix of waving flags at 350km cars!
05-29-2009, 09:34 PM
#37
Drifting
They had the orange/black cones up during the Trans Am weekend but they were called off because of all the traffic so I guess they've finally started. From Peterborough direction: Exit at 115/35 and along 35 for a short bit and in the back door. From Toronto/401: Take Liberty Street north cut through the village of Tyrone and the road comes out just AFTER where the paving stops at the top of the hill. See map. Green is road work - Red is the route. The section north of Tyrone is worth the drive as it's a mini Mosport - just watch the downhill right hander after the straight north of the village!
Last edited by Torontoworker; 05-18-2011 at 03:46 PM.
05-30-2009, 07:30 AM
#39
Racer
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Hope that everyone has fun this weekend, just looking at the thread and wanted to comment on two things...
1. The "rain line". There is no such thing as a rain line at Mosport, and the technique of looking way off the normal line for traction in the rain shouldn't be taught to newer drivers. What is the problem at Mosport that makes you have to drive a different line in the rain? The oil and rubber that are on the track from other events are washed to the surface by the rain and leave a very slippery film on the track, that is worst in the areas that have the most rubber on them... in other words on the traditonal line. By going "off line" when it first starts raining, you can find areas of the track that have less of this slippery rubber and oil mix and driving on them can give you more traction and let you carry more speed. Every lap these areas are in different spots, and if it has rained long and hard enough the crap on line will be washed away and it is then faster to move back onto the dry line.
So why shouldn't this be taught to newer drivers? Well one, it is in total contrivention of the proper driving techniques that are being taught, and two, it can put the car in really dangerous places on track (ie right on the edge outside of two) with no room for error. I advocate moving a foot or so off the traditional line to get out of the worst of the slippery film, and just slowing the student down. That way they can still work on their driving technique and miss the worst of the slippery pavement. At a DE there is no prize for the fastest lap.
2. The comment that most accidents are at the exit of the corners... While it is true that cars at DE's go off on the exit of corners, the cause is in the beginning of the corner. Accidents at the exit of 10 normally are caused by a mistake in 8 or 9 that carries through to 10. People who go off in 1 normally are off line at the turn in, carrying too much speed at the entry, or a combination of both. If you are in the correct spot on the track at corner exit, you can be hard on the gas, but if you messed up the turn in etc you will be in the wrong place at the exit and when you jump on the gas the trouble begins.
The other big factor in corner one and ten accidents quite often is the driver over-reacting to sliding wide on the exit. A large proportion of the cars who go off in those two corners hit the inside wall. One would expect that if you are going to fast you would hit the outside wall, but what so often happens is that the driver will put a wheel off on the exit, then over compensate trying to quickly jerk the car back onto the track, which causes them to spin and shoot across the track.
So what do these random thoughts mean? Be smooth, relax, work on your basic driving techniques and the speed will happen. And the biggest part, have fun.
Marc
1. The "rain line". There is no such thing as a rain line at Mosport, and the technique of looking way off the normal line for traction in the rain shouldn't be taught to newer drivers. What is the problem at Mosport that makes you have to drive a different line in the rain? The oil and rubber that are on the track from other events are washed to the surface by the rain and leave a very slippery film on the track, that is worst in the areas that have the most rubber on them... in other words on the traditonal line. By going "off line" when it first starts raining, you can find areas of the track that have less of this slippery rubber and oil mix and driving on them can give you more traction and let you carry more speed. Every lap these areas are in different spots, and if it has rained long and hard enough the crap on line will be washed away and it is then faster to move back onto the dry line.
So why shouldn't this be taught to newer drivers? Well one, it is in total contrivention of the proper driving techniques that are being taught, and two, it can put the car in really dangerous places on track (ie right on the edge outside of two) with no room for error. I advocate moving a foot or so off the traditional line to get out of the worst of the slippery film, and just slowing the student down. That way they can still work on their driving technique and miss the worst of the slippery pavement. At a DE there is no prize for the fastest lap.
2. The comment that most accidents are at the exit of the corners... While it is true that cars at DE's go off on the exit of corners, the cause is in the beginning of the corner. Accidents at the exit of 10 normally are caused by a mistake in 8 or 9 that carries through to 10. People who go off in 1 normally are off line at the turn in, carrying too much speed at the entry, or a combination of both. If you are in the correct spot on the track at corner exit, you can be hard on the gas, but if you messed up the turn in etc you will be in the wrong place at the exit and when you jump on the gas the trouble begins.
The other big factor in corner one and ten accidents quite often is the driver over-reacting to sliding wide on the exit. A large proportion of the cars who go off in those two corners hit the inside wall. One would expect that if you are going to fast you would hit the outside wall, but what so often happens is that the driver will put a wheel off on the exit, then over compensate trying to quickly jerk the car back onto the track, which causes them to spin and shoot across the track.
So what do these random thoughts mean? Be smooth, relax, work on your basic driving techniques and the speed will happen. And the biggest part, have fun.
Marc
05-30-2009, 09:37 PM
#40
Drifting
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A few years back at the start of a race, a GTA Corvette passed me (GTD) on the outside of the exit of 10. Not on the pavement, on the grass!!! Talk about skid marks, and not the ones on the track. That was some relaxed driving.
So, the only point where I repectively disagree with you is the "rain line" comment. I understand your argument, but what I like to do is to teach people to hunt for traction regardless of conditions. Always be searching for where your car has grip. When it is raining, your traction areas are so far off line, you could say where you are driving is the "rain line". A foot or two off the regular line is still too slippery in my opinion. But I would feel comfortable teaching this to most people, but constantly remind them to hunt for traction and not to blindly follow what people are telling them.
If you get a chance, walk Mosport in the rain. Try to walk up 2 on the racing line. You will be very surprised at the lack of grip!!
Anyhow... Now I am just babbling... and being cocky...
P
05-30-2009, 10:15 PM
#41
I just read this after finishing my first day of a UCR event at Mosport. I've been driving at Mosport for several years now, in another car primarily, but I have to say it's a very well run event, and a great bunch of people!
We had a couple of trains in the white run group today, but it was cool seeing all of the beautiful Porsches running together!
I just wish I knew about the construction before I left this morning!
See you Sunday morning!
We had a couple of trains in the white run group today, but it was cool seeing all of the beautiful Porsches running together!
I just wish I knew about the construction before I left this morning!
See you Sunday morning!
05-31-2009, 12:13 AM
#42
Nordschleife Master
So, the only point where I repectively disagree with you is the "rain line" comment. I understand your argument, but what I like to do is to teach people to hunt for traction regardless of conditions. Always be searching for where your car has grip. When it is raining, your traction areas are so far off line, you could say where you are driving is the "rain line". A foot or two off the regular line is still too slippery in my opinion. But I would feel comfortable teaching this to most people, but constantly remind them to hunt for traction and not to blindly follow what people are telling them.
P
P
06-01-2009, 09:35 AM
#44
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While I'm in the blue run group with Rennsport (UCR white) I was very happy to have an instructor ride with me all weekend. She was very firm... but fair, and no nonsense in her technique and instructing manner, which I found perfect for my learning style.
And after one ride with her in her car, I absorbed more about the track than I had in the previous 3 sessions... I dubbed her "Hurricane Hazel"... though only with my inner voice, but I think the UCR members know exactly who I mean...
I can't wait to come back again!
