View Poll Results: How will you be voting?
Liberal
18
22.50%
Conservative
49
61.25%
NDP
0
0%
Undecided
4
5.00%
Undecided, leaning Liberal
5
6.25%
Undecided, leaning Conservative
4
5.00%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll
OT: How are you voting?
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 10
From: Toronto, Canada
Oh boy - here's some more good news.
Canadians were asked in 2008, - BY THE HARPER GOV - before carfting a budget - about 18 spending priorities. LAST (lowest) on the list? Increase in military spending.
Harpers response...
"In total, the Government plans to invest
close to $490 billion in defence over this (20 year) period.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????
Talk about WANTON spending!
I'm not making this up - I cut and paste that from...
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/focus/first/defstra_e.asp
Don't know about this??? Because it was quietly released in the middle of the night - only on the Defence Dept's website.
Why? YOU don't want to spend this kind of money on the military.
Did you know this? Do you support it? Are you going to vote for a "leader" who has to "slip in" multi-billion dollar spending initiatives because the people of his country don't want it?
Why isn't this FRONT PAGE news???
Unbeliveable - but there it is in black and white for you to read.
Now - who's supporting this scammer?
RK
Canadians were asked in 2008, - BY THE HARPER GOV - before carfting a budget - about 18 spending priorities. LAST (lowest) on the list? Increase in military spending.
Harpers response...
"In total, the Government plans to invest
close to $490 billion in defence over this (20 year) period.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????
Talk about WANTON spending!
I'm not making this up - I cut and paste that from...
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/focus/first/defstra_e.asp
Don't know about this??? Because it was quietly released in the middle of the night - only on the Defence Dept's website.
Why? YOU don't want to spend this kind of money on the military.
Did you know this? Do you support it? Are you going to vote for a "leader" who has to "slip in" multi-billion dollar spending initiatives because the people of his country don't want it?
Why isn't this FRONT PAGE news???
Unbeliveable - but there it is in black and white for you to read.
Now - who's supporting this scammer?
RK
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 10
From: Toronto, Canada
Ha ha ha! That's a great point. Thankfully - I'm the boss - and can spend the time to craft these crazy long messages.
I have to admit - I'm spending A LOT of time on this. For every post - I'm doing research - talking to people, etc. I want to get my facts right. And I revise my posts as I write them - trying to get the tone right - trying not to offend while expressing my passionate convictions.
But I feel this is time well spent - I deeply care about this country and the people in it. And I hope that folks reading this are open to considering the issues and thoughtfully cast thier votes.
RK
I have to admit - I'm spending A LOT of time on this. For every post - I'm doing research - talking to people, etc. I want to get my facts right. And I revise my posts as I write them - trying to get the tone right - trying not to offend while expressing my passionate convictions.
But I feel this is time well spent - I deeply care about this country and the people in it. And I hope that folks reading this are open to considering the issues and thoughtfully cast thier votes.
RK
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 17
From: Ottawa, Ontario
My "reaction" isn’t a "reaction" at all - it's a long-held belief that the MMP system is better. If that means that there would a larger # of conservative seats at time when there would have been a Liberal majority - then so be it. I'm entirely prepared to live with consequences of a more representative system. You're suggesting that this opinion is "new" and based on the current scenario. Wrong - MMP DOESN'T even exist yet - it's wishful thinking. And frankly, I liked it when I first understood it, years ago.
Further - the numbers suggest that I'm NOT either a) in the minority (polls alone show that - right?) and b) it's NOT a declining frame of mind - it's a PERCEPTION you have from the mainstream media and the Harper ads themselves.
It certainly must be comforting for you to be told that neo-con sentiment is rising in Canada. But recent research suggests the COVERAGE of such sentiment is increasing - NOT the actual opinions of Canadians. (I'll dig up the study shortly).
I do think there's actually some wisdom to the adage. Life experience teaches you that idealism suffers in the face of harsh reality and pragmatism. I'll agree. And while I've only been around for 40 years or so - I've seen enough hard-core, unbridled idealism fail to learn that without being tempered - that approach doesn't work. One does have to apply a degree of pragmatism to "get 'er done".
But that doesn't mean you have to abandon the core value system that underpins your society. You say "cradle to grave" like it's something bad or wrong. So taking care of babies, and the aged is NOT something you're in favour of? Ah - yes - it IS the Harper way! Cut child care, allow private clinics so resources are drained from the public system.
You're right! Cradle to grave is BAD! Only the strong, fit, "normal" folks should survive! Let the market decide who wins and who loses!
'Cept this isn't a terribly admirable way to run a country. We've been all over these issues before - and let's suffice it to say - informed, compassionate voters don't want the county you seem to be advocating. They want the Canada that is (well, was!) globally admired for it's care of all of it's people - through strong, supportive government - it's leadership in the care for the enviroment and a unique balance of commerce and compassion.
RK
Further - the numbers suggest that I'm NOT either a) in the minority (polls alone show that - right?) and b) it's NOT a declining frame of mind - it's a PERCEPTION you have from the mainstream media and the Harper ads themselves.
It certainly must be comforting for you to be told that neo-con sentiment is rising in Canada. But recent research suggests the COVERAGE of such sentiment is increasing - NOT the actual opinions of Canadians. (I'll dig up the study shortly).
I do think there's actually some wisdom to the adage. Life experience teaches you that idealism suffers in the face of harsh reality and pragmatism. I'll agree. And while I've only been around for 40 years or so - I've seen enough hard-core, unbridled idealism fail to learn that without being tempered - that approach doesn't work. One does have to apply a degree of pragmatism to "get 'er done".
But that doesn't mean you have to abandon the core value system that underpins your society. You say "cradle to grave" like it's something bad or wrong. So taking care of babies, and the aged is NOT something you're in favour of? Ah - yes - it IS the Harper way! Cut child care, allow private clinics so resources are drained from the public system.
You're right! Cradle to grave is BAD! Only the strong, fit, "normal" folks should survive! Let the market decide who wins and who loses!
'Cept this isn't a terribly admirable way to run a country. We've been all over these issues before - and let's suffice it to say - informed, compassionate voters don't want the county you seem to be advocating. They want the Canada that is (well, was!) globally admired for it's care of all of it's people - through strong, supportive government - it's leadership in the care for the enviroment and a unique balance of commerce and compassion.
RK
Thread Starter
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,859
Likes: 50
From: Hamilton, Ont. Canada
Ha ha ha! That's a great point. Thankfully - I'm the boss - and can spend the time to craft these crazy long messages.
I have to admit - I'm spending A LOT of time on this. For every post - I'm doing research - talking to people, etc. I want to get my facts right. And I revise my posts as I write them - trying to get the tone right - trying not to offend while expressing my passionate convictions.
But I feel this is time well spent - I deeply care about this country and the people in it. And I hope that folks reading this are open to considering the issues and thoughtfully cast thier votes.
RK
I have to admit - I'm spending A LOT of time on this. For every post - I'm doing research - talking to people, etc. I want to get my facts right. And I revise my posts as I write them - trying to get the tone right - trying not to offend while expressing my passionate convictions.
But I feel this is time well spent - I deeply care about this country and the people in it. And I hope that folks reading this are open to considering the issues and thoughtfully cast thier votes.
RK
But it's only useful when everyone engages. RK, I do think you went overboard with your post about it likely being conservatives that vandalized the liberals' cars a few days ago - that's really not a Tory way of behaving any more than it is a Green way. But Jaak, you can't just write off someone and everything they say just because they flew off the handle about one remark. If we all did that, we'd all just end up taking our ***** and going home, because everyone does it sooner or later. We did have quite a good discussion going, all of it backed up with facts, which is critical. Let's keep that open dialogue going.
Rest In Peace Jaak
Cable Guy
Rennlist Member
Cable Guy
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,654
Likes: 4
From: Don Mills, Canuckistan
It does seem to take a lot of time, but in researching stuff to respond to other people, I've learned a lot, and have many times had to go back and edit something, because what I thought I was right about turned out to be completely wrong. Curious how life works that way.
But it's only useful when everyone engages. RK, I do think you went overboard with your post about it likely being conservatives that vandalized the liberals' cars a few days ago - that's really not a Tory way of behaving any more than it is a Green way. But Jaak, you can't just write off someone and everything they say just because they flew off the handle about one remark. If we all did that, we'd all just end up taking our ***** and going home, because everyone does it sooner or later. We did have quite a good discussion going, all of it backed up with facts, which is critical. Let's keep that open dialogue going.
But it's only useful when everyone engages. RK, I do think you went overboard with your post about it likely being conservatives that vandalized the liberals' cars a few days ago - that's really not a Tory way of behaving any more than it is a Green way. But Jaak, you can't just write off someone and everything they say just because they flew off the handle about one remark. If we all did that, we'd all just end up taking our ***** and going home, because everyone does it sooner or later. We did have quite a good discussion going, all of it backed up with facts, which is critical. Let's keep that open dialogue going.
As I said ... I'm finished here ...
Thread Starter
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,859
Likes: 50
From: Hamilton, Ont. Canada
So then has every politician in history lost credibility? I couldn't disagree more with what you're saying. In fact, I think you're looking for a reason to dismiss rk and maybe get out of an argument you're not faring well in.
Like I said, everyone overstates things once in a while, particularly when they get passionate. You can't then dismiss everything else they might say. If you do, then it's you that loses credibility.
Like I said, everyone overstates things once in a while, particularly when they get passionate. You can't then dismiss everything else they might say. If you do, then it's you that loses credibility.
Rest In Peace Jaak
Cable Guy
Rennlist Member
Cable Guy
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,654
Likes: 4
From: Don Mills, Canuckistan
So then has every politician in history lost credibility? I couldn't disagree more with what you're saying. In fact, I think you're looking for a reason to dismiss rk and maybe get out of an argument you're not faring well in.
Like I said, everyone overstates things once in a while, particularly when they get passionate. You can't then dismiss everything else they might say. If you do, then it's you that loses credibility.
Like I said, everyone overstates things once in a while, particularly when they get passionate. You can't then dismiss everything else they might say. If you do, then it's you that loses credibility.
BTW ... I was not losing or not faring well in. His statements held very little truth to them. All one has to do is a quick google to find the real story.
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Thread Starter
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,859
Likes: 50
From: Hamilton, Ont. Canada
No, "not normal" is wigging out and stealing a ring. Yes the accusations were unfounded. "Laced with bile" is de rigeur in politics - yes that's normal. He showed his true colours long before that post. Hell, he wears his political heart on his sleeve for all to see! It's actually quite refreshing, rather than most people who don't have the courage to voice their true opinions.
And, outside that post, RK's statements have lots of truth - he's posted links to several sources backing him up.
And, outside that post, RK's statements have lots of truth - he's posted links to several sources backing him up.
Rest In Peace Jaak
Cable Guy
Rennlist Member
Cable Guy
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,654
Likes: 4
From: Don Mills, Canuckistan
No, "not normal" is wigging out and stealing a ring. Yes the accusations were unfounded. "Laced with bile" is de rigeur in politics - yes that's normal. He showed his true colours long before that post. Hell, he wears his political heart on his sleeve for all to see! It's actually quite refreshing, rather than most people who don't have the courage to voice their true opinions.
And, outside that post, RK's statements have lots of truth - he's posted links to several sources backing him up.
And, outside that post, RK's statements have lots of truth - he's posted links to several sources backing him up.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,219
Likes: 117
From: Toronto
Funny video about how the conservative would deal with "objectionable" artistic endeavors. It's in french, but even if you're an anglophone you'll get the gist. FYI: this was directed by Erik Canuel who did the brilliant film "Bon Cop, Bad Cop".
Enjoy
Enjoy
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 17
From: Ottawa, Ontario
I just saw a commercial that ended with Harper standing next to Bush. For those of us who are voting Liberal, it was brilliant comparison.
Also, I started an article while in a waiting room today that Dion who spoke yesterday really did a great job and this writer wondered if he might actually pull an upset on Tuesday. Unfortunately, I got called into a meeting and did not get very far into the article. If anyone knows the article I am talking about, I would love to know what Dion did to get that kind of acclaim.
Also, I started an article while in a waiting room today that Dion who spoke yesterday really did a great job and this writer wondered if he might actually pull an upset on Tuesday. Unfortunately, I got called into a meeting and did not get very far into the article. If anyone knows the article I am talking about, I would love to know what Dion did to get that kind of acclaim.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 10
From: Toronto, Canada
Hi guys - sorry - actually had some "real" work to do these past few days.
Perhaps I did over react a bit to the vandalism. This is a trigger for me - see the "garage security" thread from a few months ago. Violation of personal property/space is a HUGE issue for me. That it tied into the election, and endangered lives just amplifies it. If you note in my post - I DO NOT specifically accuse anyone - but DO hint at a possible "elephant in the room" conclusion as to posible suspects. I even tried to inject a bit lightheartnedness to keep the tone softer.
I'll apologize here and now to any and all who took offence to that post - and hope that the police do find the culprits, whomever they may be - so as to restore a sense of safety for those neighbourhoods.
As for my arguements not being "news" - as I stated several times - I'm hoping to reach undecided voters - for whom a lot of this IS news! Jaak - you're clearly plugged in and smart and informed about the policies and thier implications. We just want differnt outcomes. I think we probably agree on many core points - we just want them to be dealt with in differing ways. And I think you've made good contibutions on a number of issues.
But I was NEVER going to sway you towards my way of thinking. Not even trying. Frankly - healthy discord is critical to crafting better policy - so you and I bashing away on the issues is the best possible approach - to my way of thinking.
But I'm sorry that you can no longer consider any of my opnions because of a single post. For you to dismiss and disparage my positions because of my conjecture, suggests to me that you are now over reacting. But let's agree on this - we DO share a love of this country, a love of awesome automobiles and the need for a good discission. Perhaps that's enough common ground to move forwar upon? I leave it up to you.
Rk
Perhaps I did over react a bit to the vandalism. This is a trigger for me - see the "garage security" thread from a few months ago. Violation of personal property/space is a HUGE issue for me. That it tied into the election, and endangered lives just amplifies it. If you note in my post - I DO NOT specifically accuse anyone - but DO hint at a possible "elephant in the room" conclusion as to posible suspects. I even tried to inject a bit lightheartnedness to keep the tone softer.
I'll apologize here and now to any and all who took offence to that post - and hope that the police do find the culprits, whomever they may be - so as to restore a sense of safety for those neighbourhoods.
As for my arguements not being "news" - as I stated several times - I'm hoping to reach undecided voters - for whom a lot of this IS news! Jaak - you're clearly plugged in and smart and informed about the policies and thier implications. We just want differnt outcomes. I think we probably agree on many core points - we just want them to be dealt with in differing ways. And I think you've made good contibutions on a number of issues.
But I was NEVER going to sway you towards my way of thinking. Not even trying. Frankly - healthy discord is critical to crafting better policy - so you and I bashing away on the issues is the best possible approach - to my way of thinking.
But I'm sorry that you can no longer consider any of my opnions because of a single post. For you to dismiss and disparage my positions because of my conjecture, suggests to me that you are now over reacting. But let's agree on this - we DO share a love of this country, a love of awesome automobiles and the need for a good discission. Perhaps that's enough common ground to move forwar upon? I leave it up to you.
Rk
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,911
Likes: 17
From: Ottawa, Ontario
Sorry ... that was not normal. Unfounded accusations laced with bile seems to be normal to you??? He was way out of line ... showed his true colours. I did not want to lower myself to his level.
BTW ... I was not losing or not faring well in. His statements held very little truth to them. All one has to do is a quick google to find the real story.
BTW ... I was not losing or not faring well in. His statements held very little truth to them. All one has to do is a quick google to find the real story.
You have produced some great arguements here but you have RK all wrong. I have known him for years and he is smart, well read and spends a ton of time educating himself on the things that matter to him. He also has a great sense of humour and like all of us here loves Porsche's. If you are upset about his comment, you SHOULD respond to him, but don't challenge his integrity. As far as I am concerned, your arguements are no more or less powerful than his arguements.
If RK said something offensive, then then you have every right to call him on it, but his political views are well thought out and researched I can assure you there is absolutely no reason to dicredit any of them. But I am sure most people here are smart enough to look past your comments. You and RK act as if your guys are running for the President of the USA, and the smear campaigns have begun.
Stick to the your valuable input from your point of view and RK should stick to his. You will not sway him and he will not sway you, but all the undecideds are learning a ton.
This message was approved by justinsrx7