PPo

Stick with it! If you are aware of the fact that you have a lot to learn you are ahead of a lot of other people. It takes a lot of time before you really feel comfortable. A wet and cold track exacerbates the issue.

You should also consider the fact that track days test the driver and the cars. You do have a steep learning, and so does your car. You will also learn how to best set-up your car if you stick with it... A handling problem or sketchy car may be adding to you hesitation.

First of all, you pay the same as everybody else to use the track, so don't worry about driving slow. If you are pacing your progress to what you feel comfortable with, by all means drive slow. The only thing that is not tolerated is cars not properly giving pass signals, or cars driving dangerously. This does not sound like you... be aware, be safe, and be curteous... you will be fine.

This last point is important. My experience tells me that the drivers who start slow usually end up being faster in the long run. Stick with it, and talk to as many people as you can at the track, experience different instructors. Trust them and listen to them, they won't push you into something dangerous...

Hope this helps,
Patrick

Christien

I can't possibly imagine how intimidating it must be to have your first on-track experience be Mosport in the wet. Yikes! Let me tell you, as the driver of a 72 911 T (T as in touring, not turbo), I'm pretty much always the slowest car out there on straights. Many of the NA 944s are flying by me on the back straight. I'm so used to giving pass signals that I'm probably more comfortable doing 5c one-handed! Who cares? These are instructional and/or lapping days, plain and simple. If someone's on your ***, either a) they're not being impatient, are in full control of their car, and are just letting you know they want by you at the next passing zone and will patiently wait, or b) they're an *******. Either way, don't pay any attention. No doubt that takes some getting used to, but it's the only way to enjoy yourself.

And if you're not comfortable giving the pass, don't. It's green, for crying out loud. There are no racers in that group. Wannabees, maybe, but if you're driving like a racer in green you should be sent home. Don't wait endless laps to give a pass, but do wait until your comfortable to do so. There's only ever been one time I've been really frustrated, and that was driving behind a guy who had absolutely no clue what he was doing, and wouldn't give a pass signal for 3 laps. My instructor eventually said screw it, take him here and don't look back.

Track driving is probably the steepest learning curve of anything we'll do in our lives, shy of perhaps first learning to walk and talk. I don't think I've ever met anyone who's truly intolerant of newbies. Remember, too, that most of us on here are intermediate at best. It's my 4th year doing this, and if I were still driving with UCR I'd probably be barely in white, but I've still got a ton to learn.

Bob D..

Heinz 57 - you are being given good advice.
I can't tell from your web name, but from the address I assume you and I were on security Sat AM? I think you said it was your first time out.

As Patrick said, focus on becoming comfortable and consistent.
Speed can be developed once the first two are in place.
People generally dont spend enough time working on the basics before they try to go fast, and, as Patrick said, is usually shows up at some point.

There has been a lot of discussion about passing.
One of the toughest things I had to learn is that sometimes the best thing to do is just back off and give myself and others some room, without necessarily passing or being passed. The once-through-the-pits maneuver mentioned at the drivers meeting is a great way to get some separation. (Which, by the way, Christien, your instructor should have done when you were being held up)

I found the best way to avoid whatever frustrations exist in the green group is to be cool, drive well, and get moved to yellow, where there are generally fewer cars, and the ones there are usually going a bit faster.

Sometimes when there are a lot of cars I use that to work on one or two specific corners, backing off to get a bit of space (possibly holding up someone behind me) and then taking a focussed run at a particular corner, knowing that I might catch up to the car ahead before the next corner.

Heinz 57

Wow, I wish I had talked to you guys before hand. I feel better about my performance all things being considered. My instructor is a racer (944) so I wonder if he was expecting more than he got from me. Agree with the passing signal debate, some original confusion, taking you hand off the wheel of a perfectly good car going 120+ kph I found the a little awkward. I also was confused by a couple of cars driving a wet line when the rest of us were doing the dry line. Especially at 5a, it would be easy to find yourself into the side of the car or at best overtaken it.
Bob,yeh, when I first set up my username I had a old 71T with square bumpers, a deck lid from an "S", seats from a, '84 and a seized 2.7 (subsequently back dated to a 2.2) and a 915 box, hence the name Heinz 57. If I could change my id on the fly I would. Great meeting you btw. The security detail was somewhat farcical, watching all those cars bypass us on the lower road out of the tunnel! I understand the insurance stuff
Well I appreciate you guys pitching in, I learned alot, and am ready to go at it again.

Steve F

Bill N

My favourite quotation...from a motorcycle racer I heard on CBC..."If you want to go fast, don't hurry."

Patience, you have a great attitude, take your time, and I suspect the next event will be a blast!

Christien

We did - twice. I still caught up to him. This guy was doing 4-5 minute laps in an automatic 928, paying no attention to his instructor.

PPo

I would tell you to just pass him... and let me deal with it in the pits... if I was your instructor.

I am not saying you particularly did anything wrong, or are even remotely at fault, but another skill to learn is to present yourself as wanting to pass. Make sure you fill his mirrors, then even resort to honking and flashing.... If you do all of this and then just pass him, the other driver will get dealt with properly.

4-5 minutes laps?? How does that person drive on public roads?

-Patrick

Christien

I thought about honking and flashing, but I didn't want to get black flagged myself for being overly aggressive. And also, like someone pointed out above, a few really slow trips through 5 give you more time to slow down and really examine the corner.

I guess I'm just so used to being the slow guy (on the straights, at least) and always watching diligently for other cars that I expect the same from everyone else. I don't mind making concessions for someone who's a bit timid at being passed, as we've all been there, but there has to be a limit, especially when you think of the cost/min. for on-track time!

pongobaz

I agree with Christian about not being overly aggressive. I do as my instructor says and reel the slow cars in as much as possible prior to the passing zones, then I fill their mirrors with my car. But some simply don't see you. We even moved slightly to the right a few times in the hopes that the instructor would look in the side mirror, but no luck. With cases like that, my instructor did not authorize that I pass him anyway; we felt that the driver (and instructor) were too unpredictable to risk it.
Yeah, I did a few stop and go's in the pits to try to space things out, but I'd catch up pretty quickly to the same guilty parties.
4-5 min laps? Not surprised, considering the one lap in the back straight when I had to downshift to 2nd in the same spot where I usually would upshift to 5th because one car in front was going so freakin slow and not letting anyone pass...that was nuts.

PPo

This will bring attention to the situation, it isn't being aggressive... if somebody is driving THAT slow on the track they should be removed for safety reasons. If they are not giving passing signals they should be kicked out along with the instructor. It really sounds like this driver has no place on the track if they are doing 4-5 minute laps and not giving passing signals for entire laps.

The reasons are simple, when everbody plays nice and is aware no frustrations appear and everybody maintains a cool clear head. When somebody is clearly not being aware and is driving unsafe (i.e. too slow) they creat situations where accidents can happen. Get them off the track before somebody gets hurt.

If you ignore 3 blue flags during a race, they will boot you out the whole weekend and put your license on probation. DE should be the same.

Hienz 57, this doesn't apply to you because by your description you are being aware and letting cars pass regularly.

Does this looks like it will start a flame war?

-Patrick

Christien

Nope, no flame war needed. I think we're all in agreement. There's a certain amount of timidity that can be tolerated, but when it becomes unsafe, it becomes a serious problem. FWIW, I do believe this really slow guy was sent packing, because I didn't see him out again after in the afternoon. Also, we were sharing a tent/lawn chairs with his instructor - it wasn't the instructor's fault. He said he repeatedly told him to give the pass. I think for the afternoon he said to the guy 'look, why don't you ride with me as a passenger for the rest of the day to see how it's done?'

PPo

Nice... Glad to hear it was handled like this!!

Christien

How do you drive an automatic on the track anyway?

Bob D..

As far as an automatic - if you ever have a chance to ride with Rick Bye in a Tiptronic car, do it - it is eye-opening.

Regarding the passing discussion - hopefully nobody is taking any of this as an argument.
Passing is ALWAYS a problem. There is always a faster car or a faster dirver. I attended the instructors meeting Sunday, and there was some fairly stiff direction on how they were acting in their run group, where there are huge speed differentials.
One thing that has not been mentioned is to seek out the person, and mention it to them, while acknowledging that they might still be early in the learning process. Sometimes some simple positive feedback works.......................
nah, not amongst a bunch of Porsche guys
Bob

amaist

Put it in D
Done it plenty of times. Just mash the gas way before the apex so that when you need full power it will finally kick down. Just don't tell Hertz about that.