leomac

I know Ive been talking about for years but I guess now that the dollar is par the average joe is just figuring out that we have been getting screwed.

Here is the link http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/0...assaction.html

YYC930

I just contacted the lawyer in the case and asked to be added or used as a witness as it pertains to practices by PCCL, PCNA and RIV.

What do you think of that Nick ???

Zookie

"The lawsuit covers anyone who bought a vehicle in Canada between August 2005 and August 2007. It requires court approval to be certified as a class action"

What does that mean? and does that include Pre-Owned Cars?

BruceP

Watch what you wish for. Currency is only part of the picture. Another part is the higher margins required to support distribution and service for market a tenth of the size of the US, spread across more geography. The only way to match American prices and still have a viable business is to have Canada bundled into the US business as another territory rather than as a separate market. Fine for us, but if enough industries get pushed into that, well, Manifest Destiny here we come.

I'm not looking to pay more than I have to for anything, believe me. But sovereignty is in large part an economic concept, and it comes at a price.

Jamie140

+1. It'll take more than a price delta to prove a conspiracy to inflate CAD prices.

Inrev

Well hopefully this case will get us interesting details on real additional costs vs consumer gouging. I bet there's a little of both.

YYC930

There is no distribution network or significant overhead involved in Porsche sales in Canada. Period.

We are a US state as far as PCNA is concerned when it comes to sales figures. There is a very small office in Ontario with maybe 3-4 people last time I checked........people that would be in the US office to cover the additional territory if we were a state or two.........that is it. And the cost of 3-4 people plus a small office does not add up to much more than $3-400K per annum. That is about the PCNA margin in 20 or so 997 turbos at dealer cost. A non-issue.

Canada is bundled into the US business.........it has been since 1995 when VW Canada dropped it. PCNA has been responsible for operations.....PCCL is just a subsidiary for legal reasons, amongst other things.

Carry on.........

Turbodan

I personally love capitalism and think corporations should be able to price there products different in different countries (their choice). are you upset that a product is cheaper in asia than here? this also allows people to go down and get a car and save money (or make money as some do bringing cars up here). also if enough arbitrage happens porsche canada will lower there prices. I don't mind the guys who don't shop around or are too nervous to buy from US having to pay premium. Plus this helps resale prices when we want to sell. Free markets rule!

Rob993

Turbodan,

But do we have a free trade agreement with China? We do in N.A. The problem is when PCCA dictates what Canadian Porsche dealers buy and to and extent sell based on USA currency. That's where the problem is. No wonder Porsche tucked their tail between their legs and ran when the stricter rules were required for reporting if they were to be on the NYSE.

BruceP

You seem very confident in your facts. Good for you. But your logic is a bit flawed: Canada has its own problems in terms of selling cars here. Its own compliance issues, its own tax and duty issues, etc. Just doing business with this country's governments is a full time job for any enterprise. Even if it was handled from Atlanta, it would require people, and that would impose costs. You figure $400K per annum? That would be a bargain, if your numbers are correct. I seriously doubt you could staff a Canada group in Atlanta for that money. In other words, optimistically, it's a zero sum game. If Canada was the 51st state, it would be the most expensive to do business in short of Alaska. Now, ask someone in Alaska what they pay for cars...

The one thing in your post that's absolutely true is that PCNA has a consolidated P&L. That's the only reason they were able to move so fast to drop prices, and you can be sure that our American brothers are picking up the cost.

Sorry, but the fact is that this is an expensive country to do business in, without the benefit of volume to spread the cost around. If you want to be an economically sovereign nation, you have to pay the piper.

YYC930

I'm wrong ? In your first post you said this.........

Like I said.........it's "been" like that since 1995..........I was a Porsche dealer sales manager from 92-95 and saw it take place. PCNA buys our cars in USD from PAG then hoses us.

PCCL sells roughly 1,100 cars here.......even with the new pricing and 6.1% duty paid........they are 10-20% less in the US with dollar parity. Their dealer margin because of this on 1,100 cars is probably 50 times more than what I estimated was necessary to run a small office. And that is at dollar parity. Something is wrong and someone is pocketing that money.

Back when I was the sales manager we had a dealer meeting in 92 and were asked how we wanted to buy our cars because we had a 93 cent dollar. Regardless of the path we as dealers choose.....we were still more expensive than US equivalents. Things have not changed with Porsche.

RR

WTF?
Ahhh, poor Porsche, has to spend a little extra selling cars in Canada...cry us an effing river. You've got to be kidding me right? You have the same flippant attitude Porsche has. You make it sound like Canadians are lucky that Porsche even sells Porsche's in Canada.
Actually it would be better that they didn't, that way we could save the money and all buy our cars down there.

My problem with Porsche is not with the sudden exchange rate change. The beef is that they priced '07 cars with '05 exchange rates, they still based their '07 cars pricing on the $1.51 CDN dollar, when in actually fact it was already down to $1.20.
Second, Canada is the only market where the RS was priced higher than their flagship model - the Turbo. In every other market the RS was 3% cheaper than the Turbo.

BruceP

I'm not defending anybody, and it's obvious that you don't run a business on both sides of the border, or you'd immediately agree that, in their shoes, you'd aim for a higher unit margin than you're getting in the much larger US market. The economics of running a car business don't stop at the sale, and unit margin is irrelevant until you bake in your sales volume, and the imputed used car inventory and service revenue (a higher volume car business can pressure dealers to absorb overhead in service) it produces. And neither you nor I know whether those cars are wholesaled in Canada in US dollars or Euros. If it were the latter, then I would remind you that our currency hasn't appreciated all that much. My attitude is not "flippant"; it's the perspective of a business person.

You as a consumer have a choice. Buy here and support those economics, or buy there and support those. There is no wrong answer, as long as you're prepared to bear the costs, monetary and otherwise. Over and over again, Canadians **** and moan about the premium they pay for stuff, until eventually they find themselves on the phone with some call center in Lahore because the manufacturer in question couldn't support a marketing infrastructure in this giant, empty country and still price his products acceptably. I'm just asking if we really know what we're paying for. I'm not sure I do, but at least I'm willing to look past the end of my dick to ask the question.

In the meantime, I will dismiss as the rantings of a naive conspiracy theorist the idea that Porsche is rubbing its hands with glee at the nickels and dimes - proportionately speaking - they make in Canada.

RR

In 2003 an 04 GT3 in Canada MSRP's at $139,000 and a US 04 GT3 MSRP $99,000. Dollar at $1.49 Feb 23 2003.
In 2006 an 07 GT3 in Canada MSRP'd at $154,000 and a US 07 GT3 MSRP at $106,000 Dollar at 1.11 August 31 2006.

BruceP

So your issue is just with GT3s? Seems like an incomplete argument without looking at how the whole line was priced. Ridiculously low volume car, yet buyers would still expect to head to their local Porsche store for parts and service.

Like I say, not defending anyone. I just think it's smarter to look at these things like grownups.