CDN Dealers and US cars
01-25-2006, 07:41 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
CDN Dealers and US cars
I've been told a few times by the local dealers, that if you show up with a landed US car for service or warranty work, they might not cover it. I find that hard to believe since both the OE warranty and the CPO clearly state that coverage is for both the US and Canada. But has anyone experienced that sort of discrimination with their cars?
I was also told that in 2-4 years when I go to try to resell my imported car, no dealer will touch it and that I might as well export it back to the states and try to unload it back where it came from. Any truth?
The reason I ask, is that all the cars that I'm very seriosly considering are either landed US cars or still in the states. THe math still doesn't work on the CPO cars in Canada, but I want to make sure I understand all the risks as well as the rewards before I write a rather large cheque.
I was also told that in 2-4 years when I go to try to resell my imported car, no dealer will touch it and that I might as well export it back to the states and try to unload it back where it came from. Any truth?
The reason I ask, is that all the cars that I'm very seriosly considering are either landed US cars or still in the states. THe math still doesn't work on the CPO cars in Canada, but I want to make sure I understand all the risks as well as the rewards before I write a rather large cheque.
01-25-2006, 09:02 PM
#2
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I was a Porsche dealer and am an independant used car dealer now that does nothing but Porsches.
Read the warranty book.....that will be the rule they will have to follow in the case of the US spec car you are looking at. GM and Chrysler cancel warranties on cars shipped across the border to name but one example of what manufacturer's can and will do......
Warranties on Canadian cars for example, are provided by "Porsche Cars Canada Ltd." which is a seperate corporate and legal entity from PCNA and PAG. The applicable book on the US car will have a discaimer about when and where and who provides the warranty on the car. You can legally be out of luck in some cases. Many manufacturer's have incorporated this type of clause into their warranties as of the last few years.
Insofar as coverage on both sides of the border is concerned, it is also commonly stated that it is for the owner of the car as long as it is registered in the jurisdiction in which it was sold. This will also vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Again......read the book on the US car.
Here is the disclaimer from a Candian spec 996 that I have in stock....the US disclaimer may be similiar.....
WARRANTY OUTSIDE CANADA
If your car is taken to an authorized Porsche dealer outside of Canada, PCCL's warranty will not be applicable and defective parts will be repaired or replaced only within the terms and limitations of the warranty for new Porsche vehicles for your model year in effect in the country where such authorized Porsche dealer is located.
Having said that I have had clients denied warranty coverage in the US even though they are the original owner...........
What happens up here in Canada with a US car will depend on the clause, and the Canadian dealer, and your attitude with them. Be nice and hopefully you'll be OK.....I have worked for dealers who put US car buyers at the back of the line.......and others who have not.
Insofar as US cars are concerned at resale time......you pay less now......but you also sell for much less later.....you generally DO NOT save money.....the only advantage is more selection. Markets are not fixed....they fluctuate....when you go back to the market it will have equalized and you'll be stuck with a US car that (in the case of our market out west) 75% of the buyer's will not touch. So you'll have to discount your car steeply to sell it when you are up against a comparable Canadian spec car.
If it made sense.......Pfaff and DTFC would have lots full of US cars as would I........think about that.
Run the vin thru http://www.nicb.org/ which is the US NATIONAL INSURANCE CRIME BUREAU...........they maintain a database of flood cars....etc.....
Best of luck regardless and enjoy your new toy !!!!!!
Read the warranty book.....that will be the rule they will have to follow in the case of the US spec car you are looking at. GM and Chrysler cancel warranties on cars shipped across the border to name but one example of what manufacturer's can and will do......
Warranties on Canadian cars for example, are provided by "Porsche Cars Canada Ltd." which is a seperate corporate and legal entity from PCNA and PAG. The applicable book on the US car will have a discaimer about when and where and who provides the warranty on the car. You can legally be out of luck in some cases. Many manufacturer's have incorporated this type of clause into their warranties as of the last few years.
Insofar as coverage on both sides of the border is concerned, it is also commonly stated that it is for the owner of the car as long as it is registered in the jurisdiction in which it was sold. This will also vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Again......read the book on the US car.
Here is the disclaimer from a Candian spec 996 that I have in stock....the US disclaimer may be similiar.....
WARRANTY OUTSIDE CANADA
If your car is taken to an authorized Porsche dealer outside of Canada, PCCL's warranty will not be applicable and defective parts will be repaired or replaced only within the terms and limitations of the warranty for new Porsche vehicles for your model year in effect in the country where such authorized Porsche dealer is located.
Having said that I have had clients denied warranty coverage in the US even though they are the original owner...........
What happens up here in Canada with a US car will depend on the clause, and the Canadian dealer, and your attitude with them. Be nice and hopefully you'll be OK.....I have worked for dealers who put US car buyers at the back of the line.......and others who have not.
Insofar as US cars are concerned at resale time......you pay less now......but you also sell for much less later.....you generally DO NOT save money.....the only advantage is more selection. Markets are not fixed....they fluctuate....when you go back to the market it will have equalized and you'll be stuck with a US car that (in the case of our market out west) 75% of the buyer's will not touch. So you'll have to discount your car steeply to sell it when you are up against a comparable Canadian spec car.
If it made sense.......Pfaff and DTFC would have lots full of US cars as would I........think about that.
Run the vin thru http://www.nicb.org/ which is the US NATIONAL INSURANCE CRIME BUREAU...........they maintain a database of flood cars....etc.....
Best of luck regardless and enjoy your new toy !!!!!!
01-25-2006, 09:36 PM
#3
yeah ,all this cheapass wheeling and dealing is silly. you wanna play you gotta pay. im sure you wouldnt like someone screwing you out of a sale when you employ people locally, pay people locally, pay local taxes and then they skip to another country to save very little. you get what you pay for
01-25-2006, 10:17 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
It's not a question of being cheap and wheeling and dealing only...there aren't any used 997 in Canada right now. The last used 997 that Pfaff had, was very lightly optioned and went for $110,000 plus taxes. Believe me, I'd love to find one here but it isn't exactly a buyers market is it?
01-25-2006, 11:23 PM
#6
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Locally there are a ton of Porsches being imported fromthe US by the "open to the public" auction houses and some car leasing outfits. Annoys the local dealers no end. They honor the warranty but do not expect prompt service, nor and goodwill repairs. Loaners? Hah. Problem is not just variety, the price in canada still represents an exchange rate of 1.4 (something) Canadian to the US dollar.
Dealers also subscribe to the policy YYC mentions - at trade in time, you will be offered a lowball price. That being said, some dealers will bring in a car from the US for you. Have you asked?
Rgds,
Dealers also subscribe to the policy YYC mentions - at trade in time, you will be offered a lowball price. That being said, some dealers will bring in a car from the US for you. Have you asked?
Rgds,
01-26-2006, 09:12 AM
#7
Originally Posted by pongobaz
It's not a question of being cheap and wheeling and dealing only...there aren't any used 997 in Canada right now. The last used 997 that Pfaff had, was very lightly optioned and went for $110,000 plus taxes. Believe me, I'd love to find one here but it isn't exactly a buyers market is it?
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01-26-2006, 11:11 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
Locally there are a ton of Porsches being imported fromthe US by the "open to the public" auction houses and some car leasing outfits. Annoys the local dealers no end. They honor the warranty but do not expect prompt service, nor and goodwill repairs. Loaners? Hah. Problem is not just variety, the price in canada still represents an exchange rate of 1.4 (something) Canadian to the US dollar.
Dealers also subscribe to the policy YYC mentions - at trade in time, you will be offered a lowball price. That being said, some dealers will bring in a car from the US for you. Have you asked?
Rgds,
Dealers also subscribe to the policy YYC mentions - at trade in time, you will be offered a lowball price. That being said, some dealers will bring in a car from the US for you. Have you asked?
Rgds,
But if you know of someone at a dealership who'd be willing to work with me on this, please PM; I'd love to talk to him.
Because there are no used '05 997 locally right now, I've run the numbers on a new CDN 997 equipped the way I'd like it. At full MSRP: $116,470 plus Taxes: $134,041 CAD
Assuming I gave the US dealers their FULL asking price of $69,000 USD for an '05 997 with 5-7K equipped the same. Using today's exchange rate of 1.151, that vehicle including duty, RIV, PST, GST, etc... is in my driveway for $96,700 CAD. That's a difference of more than $37,000. Is my US vehicle really going to be worth that much less than the same CDN car at resale?
01-26-2006, 12:12 PM
#9
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Personally I am skeptical that there is any discount for a US car in Canada if the warranty has expired. When I sold my last 911 which was a US car, it was a non-issue for the buyer, as it was for me. The determinant of value was the condition of the car.
When I hear someone saying that, my first reaction is that they are trying to sell a car and want to discredit other sellers.
When I hear someone saying that, my first reaction is that they are trying to sell a car and want to discredit other sellers.
01-26-2006, 12:51 PM
#10
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Actually you forgot the 6.2% duty in your calculation.....the difference is more like $30K.....having said that if you want a Canadian spec car I can get you a new 997 at a very significant discount because of my relationship with the local dealer. Then the difference might be $20-22K.......
Now.......
Please re-read this statement and it's implications for it is the biggest factor you will have to deal with..........currency rates are not fixed............and the used car market also adjusts as well.............
Insofar as US cars are concerned at resale time......you pay less now......but you also sell for much less later.....you generally DO NOT save money.....the only advantage is more selection. Markets are not fixed....they fluctuate....when you go back to the market it will have equalized and you'll be stuck with a US car that (in the case of our market out west) 75% of the buyer's will not touch. So you'll have to discount your car steeply to sell it when you are up against a comparable Canadian spec car.
Why do you not lease the new car and remove yourself from all of these issues ?
No one here, as has been stated, is trying to discredit other sellers, it's quite the contrary, we are trying to protect a Rennlist members financial interests. If it made sense why do PFAFF and DTFC or any other P-car dealers not have their millions of inventory tied up in supposedly cheaper US cars....PAG and PCNA do not dictate what and where they buy the cars. The used car dealers I know in the GTA or BC for example who bought US cars enmass got burned more often than not......there are a couple of guys flogging the same US cars at the block in the GTA auction after auction......and they are not selling at a profit. Why are the cars at the block ? Because the retail buyers are not there.
I have a $2MM line of credit......and 18 years in the P-car market......why am I not doing it as well ? If anyone can tell me why......they can win this debate.
Now.......
Please re-read this statement and it's implications for it is the biggest factor you will have to deal with..........currency rates are not fixed............and the used car market also adjusts as well.............
Insofar as US cars are concerned at resale time......you pay less now......but you also sell for much less later.....you generally DO NOT save money.....the only advantage is more selection. Markets are not fixed....they fluctuate....when you go back to the market it will have equalized and you'll be stuck with a US car that (in the case of our market out west) 75% of the buyer's will not touch. So you'll have to discount your car steeply to sell it when you are up against a comparable Canadian spec car.
Why do you not lease the new car and remove yourself from all of these issues ?
No one here, as has been stated, is trying to discredit other sellers, it's quite the contrary, we are trying to protect a Rennlist members financial interests. If it made sense why do PFAFF and DTFC or any other P-car dealers not have their millions of inventory tied up in supposedly cheaper US cars....PAG and PCNA do not dictate what and where they buy the cars. The used car dealers I know in the GTA or BC for example who bought US cars enmass got burned more often than not......there are a couple of guys flogging the same US cars at the block in the GTA auction after auction......and they are not selling at a profit. Why are the cars at the block ? Because the retail buyers are not there.
I have a $2MM line of credit......and 18 years in the P-car market......why am I not doing it as well ? If anyone can tell me why......they can win this debate.
01-26-2006, 02:32 PM
#11
Originally Posted by YYC930
Actually you forgot the 6.2% duty in your calculation.....the difference is more like $30K.....having said that if you want a Canadian spec car I can get you a new 997 at a very significant discount because of my relationship with the local dealer. Then the difference might be $20-22K.......
Now.......
Please re-read this statement and it's implications for it is the biggest factor you will have to deal with..........currency rates are not fixed............and the used car market also adjusts as well.............
Insofar as US cars are concerned at resale time......you pay less now......but you also sell for much less later.....you generally DO NOT save money.....the only advantage is more selection. Markets are not fixed....they fluctuate....when you go back to the market it will have equalized and you'll be stuck with a US car that (in the case of our market out west) 75% of the buyer's will not touch. So you'll have to discount your car steeply to sell it when you are up against a comparable Canadian spec car.
Why do you not lease the new car and remove yourself from all of these issues ?
No one here, as has been stated, is trying to discredit other sellers, it's quite the contrary, we are trying to protect a Rennlist members financial interests. If it made sense why do PFAFF and DTFC or any other P-car dealers not have their millions of inventory tied up in supposedly cheaper US cars....PAG and PCNA do not dictate what and where they buy the cars. The used car dealers I know in the GTA or BC for example who bought US cars enmass got burned more often than not......there are a couple of guys flogging the same US cars at the block in the GTA auction after auction......and they are not selling at a profit. Why are the cars at the block ? Because the retail buyers are not there.
I have a $2MM line of credit......and 18 years in the P-car market......why am I not doing it as well ? If anyone can tell me why......they can win this debate.
Now.......
Please re-read this statement and it's implications for it is the biggest factor you will have to deal with..........currency rates are not fixed............and the used car market also adjusts as well.............
Insofar as US cars are concerned at resale time......you pay less now......but you also sell for much less later.....you generally DO NOT save money.....the only advantage is more selection. Markets are not fixed....they fluctuate....when you go back to the market it will have equalized and you'll be stuck with a US car that (in the case of our market out west) 75% of the buyer's will not touch. So you'll have to discount your car steeply to sell it when you are up against a comparable Canadian spec car.
Why do you not lease the new car and remove yourself from all of these issues ?
No one here, as has been stated, is trying to discredit other sellers, it's quite the contrary, we are trying to protect a Rennlist members financial interests. If it made sense why do PFAFF and DTFC or any other P-car dealers not have their millions of inventory tied up in supposedly cheaper US cars....PAG and PCNA do not dictate what and where they buy the cars. The used car dealers I know in the GTA or BC for example who bought US cars enmass got burned more often than not......there are a couple of guys flogging the same US cars at the block in the GTA auction after auction......and they are not selling at a profit. Why are the cars at the block ? Because the retail buyers are not there.
I have a $2MM line of credit......and 18 years in the P-car market......why am I not doing it as well ? If anyone can tell me why......they can win this debate.
i think if the used car is not a current model it may work ( i still dont agree) but for a current model it is silly to look south
01-26-2006, 02:33 PM
#12
Originally Posted by pongobaz
I have asked at Pfaff if they would consider brokering a deal on a used US car; I'd be willing to pay a couple of grand for their time. But, i was told they absolutely will not do it
But if you know of someone at a dealership who'd be willing to work with me on this, please PM; I'd love to talk to him.
Because there are no used '05 997 locally right now, I've run the numbers on a new CDN 997 equipped the way I'd like it. At full MSRP: $116,470 plus Taxes: $134,041 CAD
Assuming I gave the US dealers their FULL asking price of $69,000 USD for an '05 997 with 5-7K equipped the same. Using today's exchange rate of 1.151, that vehicle including duty, RIV, PST, GST, etc... is in my driveway for $96,700 CAD. That's a difference of more than $37,000. Is my US vehicle really going to be worth that much less than the same CDN car at resale?
But if you know of someone at a dealership who'd be willing to work with me on this, please PM; I'd love to talk to him.
Because there are no used '05 997 locally right now, I've run the numbers on a new CDN 997 equipped the way I'd like it. At full MSRP: $116,470 plus Taxes: $134,041 CAD
Assuming I gave the US dealers their FULL asking price of $69,000 USD for an '05 997 with 5-7K equipped the same. Using today's exchange rate of 1.151, that vehicle including duty, RIV, PST, GST, etc... is in my driveway for $96,700 CAD. That's a difference of more than $37,000. Is my US vehicle really going to be worth that much less than the same CDN car at resale?
01-26-2006, 02:35 PM
#13
Originally Posted by ientre9y11
Personally I am skeptical that there is any discount for a US car in Canada if the warranty has expired. When I sold my last 911 which was a US car, it was a non-issue for the buyer, as it was for me. The determinant of value was the condition of the car.
When I hear someone saying that, my first reaction is that they are trying to sell a car and want to discredit other sellers.
When I hear someone saying that, my first reaction is that they are trying to sell a car and want to discredit other sellers.
01-26-2006, 04:05 PM
#14
Race Director
I bought in Canada after doing this exercise for myself. I figured I would have saved $10,000 at the time - not including shipping or the PITA of going to get the car. In the end I wanted to keep my money in Canada, at least some stays with a Canadian dealer who pays exhorbinant Canadian taxes. I too bought at Pfaff and they were excellent. In the Rennsport Region newsletter the currency exchange was recently brought up and really this is something PCNA needs to address.
I will say that I did go to the US and pick up a US '95 968 that was absolutely immaculate. There just wasn't any selection in Canada.
For a car that is within 5 years of new personally I would try and make a deal locally.
I will say that I did go to the US and pick up a US '95 968 that was absolutely immaculate. There just wasn't any selection in Canada.
For a car that is within 5 years of new personally I would try and make a deal locally.
01-26-2006, 07:03 PM
#15
RL Community Team
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Rennlist Member
I would agree with Chris in that older cars may have slection limitations in Canada that are hard to overcome, in that case, the car you really want (model, condition level) etc. may only be available in the US. Buying a car like this would likely have relatively little consequence at resale time, as it is an older vehicle and warranty and dealer servicing (for the most part) are no longer issues.
For a relatively recent and commonly available P-car, I would try and find one in Canada.
The exchange rate has really made US cars relatively cheap in Canadian dollars. I don't see what Porsche can do though, if they adjust their prices in Canada downwards to "equal" US prices, every recent purchaser of a Porsche in Canada is going to jump off a bridge when they see their market value go down by thousands of dollars overnight.
For a relatively recent and commonly available P-car, I would try and find one in Canada.
The exchange rate has really made US cars relatively cheap in Canadian dollars. I don't see what Porsche can do though, if they adjust their prices in Canada downwards to "equal" US prices, every recent purchaser of a Porsche in Canada is going to jump off a bridge when they see their market value go down by thousands of dollars overnight.
