did you lease or finance or pay full cash for your 992 and why?
06-05-2024, 02:22 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
I do think it is a factor of age to a degree.
When I was 25 I had a car loan and at 29 I had a home loan, as did many of my friends. Of course I was at early career in my life so there was a lot of future earning capacity. In the end it is just a financial transaction with the normal risk/reward issue.
I am a cash buyer mainly because I have never had faith that markets continue to go up, and in a downturn investment income can drop dramatically. Think of 2008 for instance. If you are an expert investor managing your own portfolio then I can understand the argument that you can get a better return than putting the money into a car, but if you finance the car then you are exposed if things go South. As Warren Buffett one remarked, "Its only when the tide goes out that you see who is naked"....
I am too old for playing around with the markets and do not actively manage investments myself. My sense is that there is a huge amount of downside risk now and I have an aversion to leverage. We are seeing a bit of it in the housing market...people with recent homes that they heavily financed at rock bottom rates are going to have a cashflow hit of major size when the mortgage renews. Further, if they are upside down in the mortgage then the problem will be a lot worse.
There were some cars that I was very tempted to buy but would have meant cashing stuff out. Just felt at the time that reducing investments was risky.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
The car I wanted was a 1955 Mercedes 300SL Gullwing and the guy ( trusted too) wanted $200,000 for it.! Still, given what I knew, I decided to let it go.
Obviously most people have to finance their homes and car loans/leases are normal as long as you can handle a big downturn.
When I was 25 I had a car loan and at 29 I had a home loan, as did many of my friends. Of course I was at early career in my life so there was a lot of future earning capacity. In the end it is just a financial transaction with the normal risk/reward issue.
I am a cash buyer mainly because I have never had faith that markets continue to go up, and in a downturn investment income can drop dramatically. Think of 2008 for instance. If you are an expert investor managing your own portfolio then I can understand the argument that you can get a better return than putting the money into a car, but if you finance the car then you are exposed if things go South. As Warren Buffett one remarked, "Its only when the tide goes out that you see who is naked"....
I am too old for playing around with the markets and do not actively manage investments myself. My sense is that there is a huge amount of downside risk now and I have an aversion to leverage. We are seeing a bit of it in the housing market...people with recent homes that they heavily financed at rock bottom rates are going to have a cashflow hit of major size when the mortgage renews. Further, if they are upside down in the mortgage then the problem will be a lot worse.
There were some cars that I was very tempted to buy but would have meant cashing stuff out. Just felt at the time that reducing investments was risky.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
The car I wanted was a 1955 Mercedes 300SL Gullwing and the guy ( trusted too) wanted $200,000 for it.! Still, given what I knew, I decided to let it go.
Obviously most people have to finance their homes and car loans/leases are normal as long as you can handle a big downturn.
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Smoothoperator (06-05-2024)
06-06-2024, 11:16 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
I would rather pay interest, free up $$ to invest in other things and not worry about a fender bender or something that is not going to be written off and making the car worth 1/2 the original value a week after buying it.
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Bud Fox (06-06-2024)
06-06-2024, 01:41 PM
#18
now interest is cut by 0.25 and may cut further, maybe 911 market demand will increase?!?!?
06-06-2024, 03:53 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
No. Money is still expensive.
06-06-2024, 11:30 PM
#20
Drifting
$296,268.50
PPSA registration fee
$26.95
Down payment
$29,626.85
Total amount due from customer at lease signing
$34,196.15
Term
48 months
Annual Kilometres
20,000
Lease Rate
10.59%
Estimated monthly payment
$4,542.35
06-07-2024, 11:43 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
I would never buy a new sportscar lol
Give me something that is done depreciating. Drive worry free. and for 300K I'd rather have a Lamborghini but that is a convo for a different thread.
Give me something that is done depreciating. Drive worry free. and for 300K I'd rather have a Lamborghini but that is a convo for a different thread.
06-07-2024, 11:50 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
06-07-2024, 12:40 PM
#24
I've had a "car fund" for over 25 years. I only use it for non-depreciating toys. I don't need spousal approval for any purchase made with my car fund money (although I always discuss purchases with my wife as she is my sounding board in this regard). This money is kept in a separate US account and the account balance fluctuates as I buy or sell something. My goal with my car fund and those purchases is to not lose any of my capital over time as I consider it part of my retirement fund. Most often, I have a small gain on these toys, but I have hit a few home runs when collector car/bike markets have increased.
Any car that I am using as a daily, including my upcoming 992 summer car, is part of my annual "operating" budget. I use my LOC for these cars. I calculate my payment based on the length of time that I plan on keeping it. If it is a car that will be an 8 - 10 year car, I use current LOC interest rates and depreciate it fully over that period of time. There is always some equity left when I do this. On a car that I may keep for 4 or 5 years, I use a lease calculator and lease it to myself using a very conservative residual to ensure that I at least break even, but most often have equity left when I sell or trade it. When I get my annual bonus I usually apply a portion of it to the LOC cars, so most of them never stay on the LOC for the expected term. For example, my wife's 2017 RX350 payment was calculated using an 8 year pay-off. However, it was paid in full in 2020. I don't have a mortgage or any other debt, so my LOC is only for cars and I keep accurate monthly records on the residual value of each. If I can't afford the payment in my budget or don't feel that the monthly expense is worth it to me, I don't buy the car. I know some would say why would you take on debt when you have the cash available? I do this to ensure that I am living within my budget. If I just pay cash using my car fund for example, I will technically have more "budget" available and could talk myself into spending that budget - as many of my customers do each fall
As you can probably tell, I am not a finance guy and have little interest in finance. I also don't need to be the wealthiest guy on the block and I am not a prisoner to the concept that we all need $250k/year after tax to retire comfortably. I use software to manage my money - Quicken for the operating budget and Snap Projections to manage my retirement projections. Probably too much info for most, but I find it interesting to hear how others manage their expenses, so I thought I would share.
Any car that I am using as a daily, including my upcoming 992 summer car, is part of my annual "operating" budget. I use my LOC for these cars. I calculate my payment based on the length of time that I plan on keeping it. If it is a car that will be an 8 - 10 year car, I use current LOC interest rates and depreciate it fully over that period of time. There is always some equity left when I do this. On a car that I may keep for 4 or 5 years, I use a lease calculator and lease it to myself using a very conservative residual to ensure that I at least break even, but most often have equity left when I sell or trade it. When I get my annual bonus I usually apply a portion of it to the LOC cars, so most of them never stay on the LOC for the expected term. For example, my wife's 2017 RX350 payment was calculated using an 8 year pay-off. However, it was paid in full in 2020. I don't have a mortgage or any other debt, so my LOC is only for cars and I keep accurate monthly records on the residual value of each. If I can't afford the payment in my budget or don't feel that the monthly expense is worth it to me, I don't buy the car. I know some would say why would you take on debt when you have the cash available? I do this to ensure that I am living within my budget. If I just pay cash using my car fund for example, I will technically have more "budget" available and could talk myself into spending that budget - as many of my customers do each fall
As you can probably tell, I am not a finance guy and have little interest in finance. I also don't need to be the wealthiest guy on the block and I am not a prisoner to the concept that we all need $250k/year after tax to retire comfortably. I use software to manage my money - Quicken for the operating budget and Snap Projections to manage my retirement projections. Probably too much info for most, but I find it interesting to hear how others manage their expenses, so I thought I would share.
Last edited by Onami; 06-07-2024 at 12:42 PM.
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06-07-2024, 01:36 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Not talking 8 year old cars... New.
06-07-2024, 02:08 PM
#26
Instructor
997turbocab mentioned that he'd never buy "a new sportscar ... give me something that is done depreciating ..." I assumed when you followed up with "Show me a lambo these days for $300k!!" you were talking about a non-new, done-depreciating Lambo.
Re-reading the thread I guess I misunderstood 997's reference to the $300K Lambo.
Re-reading the thread I guess I misunderstood 997's reference to the $300K Lambo.
06-07-2024, 04:23 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
997turbocab mentioned that he'd never buy "a new sportscar ... give me something that is done depreciating ..." I assumed when you followed up with "Show me a lambo these days for $300k!!" you were talking about a non-new, done-depreciating Lambo.
Re-reading the thread I guess I misunderstood 997's reference to the $300K Lambo.
Re-reading the thread I guess I misunderstood 997's reference to the $300K Lambo.
Def not a new one lol But I'd happily take a Gallardo for 150-200K or even a 6 sp Murci for like 4-500K because I don't think your losing money even if you drive them at this point. New anything (Ferrari/Lambo whatever) doesn't really interest me.
I want the poster cars of my generation.
06-07-2024, 05:59 PM
#28
Team Owner
Def not a new one lol But I'd happily take a Gallardo for 150-200K or even a 6 sp Murci for like 4-500K because I don't think your losing money even if you drive them at this point. New anything (Ferrari/Lambo whatever) doesn't really interest me.
I want the poster cars of my generation.
I want the poster cars of my generation.
06-09-2024, 01:46 PM
#29
I've had a "car fund" for over 25 years. I only use it for non-depreciating toys. I don't need spousal approval for any purchase made with my car fund money (although I always discuss purchases with my wife as she is my sounding board in this regard). This money is kept in a separate US account and the account balance fluctuates as I buy or sell something. My goal with my car fund and those purchases is to not lose any of my capital over time as I consider it part of my retirement fund. Most often, I have a small gain on these toys, but I have hit a few home runs when collector car/bike markets have increased.
Any car that I am using as a daily, including my upcoming 992 summer car, is part of my annual "operating" budget. I use my LOC for these cars. I calculate my payment based on the length of time that I plan on keeping it. If it is a car that will be an 8 - 10 year car, I use current LOC interest rates and depreciate it fully over that period of time. There is always some equity left when I do this. On a car that I may keep for 4 or 5 years, I use a lease calculator and lease it to myself using a very conservative residual to ensure that I at least break even, but most often have equity left when I sell or trade it. When I get my annual bonus I usually apply a portion of it to the LOC cars, so most of them never stay on the LOC for the expected term. For example, my wife's 2017 RX350 payment was calculated using an 8 year pay-off. However, it was paid in full in 2020. I don't have a mortgage or any other debt, so my LOC is only for cars and I keep accurate monthly records on the residual value of each. If I can't afford the payment in my budget or don't feel that the monthly expense is worth it to me, I don't buy the car. I know some would say why would you take on debt when you have the cash available? I do this to ensure that I am living within my budget. If I just pay cash using my car fund for example, I will technically have more "budget" available and could talk myself into spending that budget - as many of my customers do each fall
As you can probably tell, I am not a finance guy and have little interest in finance. I also don't need to be the wealthiest guy on the block and I am not a prisoner to the concept that we all need $250k/year after tax to retire comfortably. I use software to manage my money - Quicken for the operating budget and Snap Projections to manage my retirement projections. Probably too much info for most, but I find it interesting to hear how others manage their expenses, so I thought I would share.
Any car that I am using as a daily, including my upcoming 992 summer car, is part of my annual "operating" budget. I use my LOC for these cars. I calculate my payment based on the length of time that I plan on keeping it. If it is a car that will be an 8 - 10 year car, I use current LOC interest rates and depreciate it fully over that period of time. There is always some equity left when I do this. On a car that I may keep for 4 or 5 years, I use a lease calculator and lease it to myself using a very conservative residual to ensure that I at least break even, but most often have equity left when I sell or trade it. When I get my annual bonus I usually apply a portion of it to the LOC cars, so most of them never stay on the LOC for the expected term. For example, my wife's 2017 RX350 payment was calculated using an 8 year pay-off. However, it was paid in full in 2020. I don't have a mortgage or any other debt, so my LOC is only for cars and I keep accurate monthly records on the residual value of each. If I can't afford the payment in my budget or don't feel that the monthly expense is worth it to me, I don't buy the car. I know some would say why would you take on debt when you have the cash available? I do this to ensure that I am living within my budget. If I just pay cash using my car fund for example, I will technically have more "budget" available and could talk myself into spending that budget - as many of my customers do each fall
As you can probably tell, I am not a finance guy and have little interest in finance. I also don't need to be the wealthiest guy on the block and I am not a prisoner to the concept that we all need $250k/year after tax to retire comfortably. I use software to manage my money - Quicken for the operating budget and Snap Projections to manage my retirement projections. Probably too much info for most, but I find it interesting to hear how others manage their expenses, so I thought I would share.
I guess you view your car fund more like an investment account to buy appreciating toys. How do you determine the toy you buy from the car fund does not depreciate?
When you use LOC to pay for your daily car, how can you depreciate LOC interest rate? Is it because LOC is from your business operation and somehow you can convince CRA 911 992 or your wife's 2017 RX350 are part of your business expense?
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George from MD (06-09-2024)
06-09-2024, 02:31 PM
#30
My car fund started at $30k in 1999. It has grown significantly both from injecting more cash and from market appreciation. At one point I took money out to put towards buying our current house. I am winding it down currently as I just have 1 bike left and I am done with old cars for now.
If I had $100k in it and wanted to buy a $125k car, I would do that as long as I was confident that I wouldn’t lose any of the $125k plus on-the-road expenses over the next 2 or 3 years. Most times, I have been right in my assumptions, but not always. I have a 1993 Harley right now that I have about $16k in. Looks like I might only get $10k out of it.
I started a small collector car dealership about 20 years ago when I was between jobs. It was called Collectible Investments. That is how I view collector cars. Somewhere to park capital with the ability to use it for fun. No real focus on growing the capital - it’s more about protecting the capital and using it without any real consumption. The use without loss is the growth I am looking for. if my daily depreciates, I don’t care as I have planned for that. If I lose on my car fund, I’m pissed off at myself.
I know what to buy from playing with collector cars for decades and sticking to the brands that I know. However, there are no guarantees with any market including collector cars.
My lease calculations are only to set reasonable/conservative payments for my home budget. Nothing that I am doing is for tax reasons nor do they offer any tax advantage. I do not own the business that I currently work for.
If I had $100k in it and wanted to buy a $125k car, I would do that as long as I was confident that I wouldn’t lose any of the $125k plus on-the-road expenses over the next 2 or 3 years. Most times, I have been right in my assumptions, but not always. I have a 1993 Harley right now that I have about $16k in. Looks like I might only get $10k out of it.
I started a small collector car dealership about 20 years ago when I was between jobs. It was called Collectible Investments. That is how I view collector cars. Somewhere to park capital with the ability to use it for fun. No real focus on growing the capital - it’s more about protecting the capital and using it without any real consumption. The use without loss is the growth I am looking for. if my daily depreciates, I don’t care as I have planned for that. If I lose on my car fund, I’m pissed off at myself.
I know what to buy from playing with collector cars for decades and sticking to the brands that I know. However, there are no guarantees with any market including collector cars.
My lease calculations are only to set reasonable/conservative payments for my home budget. Nothing that I am doing is for tax reasons nor do they offer any tax advantage. I do not own the business that I currently work for.
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Smoothoperator (06-09-2024)