Onami

I’m not a lawyer, but I have been involved in anti-trust law suits in the past. Without collusion amongst dealers, ADM’s have nothing to do with anti-trust.

RDMcG

I haver to wonder how. many people want stripper specs. I have had a fair few new cars and given Porsche pricing I never got close to only @20k in options. The only ting free is the air in the cabin, but if they could figure it out Porsche Air would become available.
I recently drove a Taycan with the most basic possible spec and it felt like the interior of a New York taxi compared to a fully optioned Taycan I drove a week later.

dml

I just checked my 991.1 TTS. $7K in options. I can't think of anything I would like. So I'm also not close to 20k in options but I think from the opposite side.

UncleDude

In Canada, right now, a used Spyder is $35-40k more expensive than new. I just sold a 2006 Honda Element with 300,500 km's on it for $12k - I paid $8k for it 4 years ago. Buying used right now makes no sense IMO, at least in my country even with a good trade as the dealers aren't coming close to matching over MSRP on trade in offers.

M718R

Well... if you look at the collapse of the crypto market, the sinking of the s&p 500 since nov. 2021, the massive interest rates hikes (more to come), current decline in the housing market and an overall 20-30% increase to the cost of living from inflation.... Dealers are not willing take the risks, as market conditions point towards a downtrend in vehicle pricing. Can't blame them, it's just business at the moment. Paying ADM right now for new vehicles might not be the smartest choice either. Unless it's something special, I would certainly wait.... If you can't, or don't care about losing a few dollars it is what it is.

M718R

https://www.omvic.on.ca/portal/Consu...nvictions.aspx

Here is a list of ongoing complaints and you can see many are because of the competition act. And a lot of dealers plead guilty and pay fines. In case you were interested...

moab

I scrolled through and didn’t see any Competition Act matters. It was all Consumer Protection Act and MVDA complaints, which makes sense since OMVIC is an Ontario agency and Competition Act is federal legislation and therefore OMVIC wouldn’t be reporting on those investigations.

JonCanadian

Our Macan GTS was relatively light on options. I think it was ~$10K. We got full leather, Carmine Red, BOSE sound and the GTS interior but we didn't get much else. This was 2018 so the salesman didn't put up much of a fuss. They pushed back on the no sunroof but that was about it. I'd be pretty pissed if they insisted that I buy more options because, you know, they're optional.

theiceman

definitely Zook !!

992C4

A base 911 was $105K starting back in 2012, and $115K in 2022, so the price went up 10%, yet the houses went up 100%, the food you eat went up 50%, and you guys are bitching about the dealers trying to make more money because their supply is less than 3 years ago. Just in case you didn't know, the dealers gets 10% gross margin, so if they sell $20K in options vs a car with no options, they only make $2K more for that allocation. All the used 992 Carrera are selling for $20-$40K over list price, so you should be glad that the dealers are not making every single allocation into used cars first and selling them over list price. And wait till the Luxusry Tax shows up in September, you people are going to bitch about it too, and don't realize that Canada is the cheapest country to purchase Porsche in the world even with the luxury tax added. Honestly, if you don't want to add $20K in options, then don't buy it, I am sure other people will.

Dyim

Food and housing is not exactly the same as a discretionary luxury purchase. I don’t think it is the same type of supply/demand curve.

I always have the impression that the dealer’s margin is higher on options. Didn’t know it is even across the price of the vehicle.

In case you missed it, a huge thread on the luxury tax also.

So this thread is another b@#$*ing thread on a separate issue.

M718R

Well let's first correct your error's

1. Base 911 price in Canada is currently $121,200.
2. Base 911 price in 2012 was $ 90,100 - That is a 35% increase - not 10%
4. For your food comparison - I use the Big Mac Index (ya I know not exactly what you meant but it's a thing economist actually use....) Let's keep with 2012 - $5.12 CAD 2022 - $6.77 ... That's about 33% increase. (pretty darn close to the 911 increase percentage)
5. Average home price in Canada in 2012 is 380K - Average as of July 2022 is 700K (and dropping btw). That is an increase of 85% over 10 years. The difference with housing vs hamburgers and cars is one is an appreciating asset and the others are not. The value of food and cars once used goes to zero eventually. (not counting collector / rare cars etc.)
4. Porsche Canada sold more cars in 2021 than ever in their history in Canada. In fact I believe it was their best year in North America. So the idea that dealers have sold less cars last year is categorically false. The fact that there was no discounts, higher interest rates and pushes for higher margin builds while not having to carry any inventory, tells me that dealership's have had a pretty decent year.

Now, you strike me as the type of guy that likes it when gas is $2 a litre, I mean if you don't buy the gas I'm sure someone else will right? I can understand paying a higher price for something that may gain value in future, like a house or a bar of gold. IF you need to buy a car for work or other reasons, then by all means you do what you have to. However, suggesting people be ok with what can be unethical practises doesn't seem like great advice. If I don't want certain options, then I don't want them. You're right about one thing, maybe they shouldn't buy the car.

Oh and after the luxury tax hit's, Canada will not be the cheapest place to buy Porsche's anymore.... A Sport Classic is $376,629 CAD in Ontario with HST and LUX tax (will be more in BC as well) in the great states of Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon with zero sales tax - $354,486.95 CAD - That's $22,142.05 more in Canada.

https://www.globenewswire.com/en/new...r-in-2021.html

https://data.nasdaq.com/data/ECONOMI...c-index-canada

westcoastj

There was a used 991.1 for sale last year, asking for over $100k - was a true base model with zero options. Seller called it "enthusiast spec" 😂

RDMcG

I am not quarrelling with your math, but the actual price of an SC in the US will be well north of MSRP. The premiums on regular cars are ridiculous so I would bet a minimum of USD 100K uplift from MSRP.

M718R

I don't disagree... The SC is a special car, I just used it as an example that MSRP between countries, Canada is no longer the best value with the Lux tax factored in. Even in the UK the SC is priced at $331,511 converted to CAD. That includes their VAT. Still less than Canada now.

I have no doubt that this model will be sold above with an ADM. I honestly think that Porsche AG can't be happy about ADM's and the current situation. How long before companies start moving towards the Tesla sales model direct to consumer because of this?