Nadvice

Just spoke to a sales about a C4 yesterday. He basically told me not to bother unless I add $30,000 options at the minimum and even so, the wait time is 1.5-2 yrs.

I personally don't like to get ripped off so I passed.

M718R

This ^ .... I can not wait for manufacturers to go the Tesla route. With all honesty as a business owner I can understand supply v demand argument. It's the lying. Just be honest. Do not bring down the Porsche brand due to your dealer's greed. Just makes that dealer dumb....

Ed99

This is true the dealer I went to I had to put in a build for a minimum of $20K options and still have to wait in line. With this in mind, I bet in the next few years all the pre-owned Porsches 911 or 718's will have highly optioned cars in the market because of this reason. Also, don't forget they recently raised the pricing's too on all Porsches. Porsche dealers definitely trying to milk what they can right now.

very green R

So from the original post I surmised that there was a law in Canada against ADM. So is it just a law by Province, since some dealers around Toronto are charging ADM?

vetfever

I was reading the PCA magazine a couple of issues ago where they were noting Porsche earns the highest margins in the auto world at 16.5%.

OttawaSteve

As far as I know there is no law against ADM in Canada and never has been. MSRP has the word "suggested" in it. However, there are also no laws that prevent manufacturers from sanctioning dealers, like in many US States. Porsche is free, within the limits of their agreement with the dealer, to retaliate against dealers here if they charge ADM. A lot of allocations, especially GT cars and other hard-to-get models, are at Porsche's whim.

tbuff

https://ferraris-online.com/ferraris-fat-margins/

Ferrari is higher. This is 2019 article and I bet they are closr to 20 now (public docs someplace) Lambo doesn't report but I bet they do just as well

Vise

There is no law or at least it is not being enforced. I thought the same until I heard otherwise from friends being asked for $$$ on top of MSRP for a factory ordered car.

Have shared this previously but there is also verbiage on the Porsche Canada site when you enter the configurator that says dealers in Canada are not obligated to sell at MSRP and are free to add any charges or fees they see fit. From that verbiage being on the Porsche Canada site it is clear this is now expected and/or allowed.

M718R

I believe there is a law against advertising, so essentially if the car's price is advertised then a dealer can not add on any ADM's (only freight and PDI). Also tied selling becomes an issue as well. Basically, you can buy product "x" only if you purchase product "y". That is also illegal. It is a tricky situation for dealers and the types of conversations they have can back fire into either one of those. Hence why most cars at dealer lots are not on Autotrader. Also why they prefer to not do customer order cars, but order inventory spec, this allows them to fully option the car, and then add the PPF/Coatings and other items that once are installed you have to pay for. In Ontario OMVIC is who you deal with to issue complaints.

https://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/...g/h_00111.html

moab

When it’s a buyer’s market, buyers can haggle down the price below MSRP but when it’s a seller’s market, the opposite can’t occur?

M718R

I get supply V demand... My personal opinion, no depreciating asset, especially one that is considered a luxury purchase, should require an ADM. If Porsche wants to make more money, raise the prices of the MSRP. If dealers want to charge extra's, they can but need to follow the laws of the competition bureau, and if they don't want to **** off Porsche AG, they should trend very carefully. Porsche AG is very aware that in the end, people will leave a brand that they feel is screwing them. In most cases, it is the dealer trying to make the most amount of profit at the expense of Porsche AG reputation. This isn't a 24k gold Rolex or a house.(this comment excludes rare Porsches that do appreciate in value, even then there is a risk of theft, damage, accident etc.). A large percentage of the Porsche products (suv's mostly) sold today, will end up in a junk yard within the next 15-20 years. End of the day, it's your money and if people are willing to pay higher prices than it is what it is.

moab

how exactly are dealers conducting their business in breach of the competition act? I’m curious. If they are, they should be punished.

M718R

I am not implying any or all dealers are in breach of the competition act, I was merely stating the laws exist. My opinion however, if a dealer says you must take additional options in order for us to sell you car...well that might imply tied selling. (they are called options for a reason) If a dealer says you have to do PPF/Ceramic or additional warranty or extended maintenance plans to purchase our product, that is for sure tied selling. I have heard of dealers that require you either lease or finance to be able to purchase. I have heard of other situations that are in breach of the competition act. Not accusing all dealers of this of course. It's a fine line they have to tread is my only point and has a consumer we need to be aware of this. I encourage any buyer's to be extra vigilant about this and record/report any mis-doings to OMVIC. These laws are here for a reason. To protect the consumer.

Now if dealers want to advertise that they are up charging (ADM) on top of MSRP and advertise the vehicle that way in a clear and concise manner, I have no issue with that. If someone is willing to pay it, then more power to them. It is up to the consumer to decide how they spend their money. For me, I would rather not pay it and go to a brand/dealer that does not do that. Great thing about capitalism and competition, there will always be someone looking to better serve its customers, just may take more time to find them.

moab

I am a laywer so that is why I am asking (not an anti-trust lawyer though). At the end of the day, all of us skirt and walk a fine line between what is legal/illegal in our daily lives - you have not tried to be aggressive with your tax filing position? I know I have and sometimes it's a grey area. As much as I don't want to pay more or an ADM to buy a new car, I do have some sympathy for any business trying to make a profit, because the climate is not always favourable for businesses trying to make a profit. In fact, because there is a serious supply problem now, I'm pretty sure dealers aren't generating the same revenue so they need to be creative. As long as what they are doing is not a clear breach of a statute, I don't begrudge them. I'd probably do the same...

M718R

There is a balance in any business on what to charge for a product. Consumer spending dictates the price for most non-essential products. As you said before, the demand out weighs the supply, so dealers get the ability to exploit the customers within the grey area. Just like you exploit the CRA come tax time in their grey area's. I get it. But just like the CRA wouldn't be happy about you exploiting those grey areas, neither is the customer at the dealership. They may pay it, but a few years down the road, depending on how depreciation reacts in the used market, I doubt many will look back to fondly.