theiceman

I personally think Albon is average at best and was a bad decision to even put him in that seat , i new it wouldn't last. Too bad Ricardo left really as i thought they had to solid drives between him and the dutch kid... but egos and status come in to play

ronnie993tt

I agree with 928gt - it's mostly about the car. Not sure MB needs Hamilton to keep winning. It's just too much money to cover a smallish downside risk. So, if I owned the team I'd loose him, if I managed the team, I might be happy to **** away the owners' money on him.

928gt

He is about average but he has got potential. He wasn't ready for RB just like Gasly wasn't when they swapped seats mid year in 2019, but look how Gasly did with a little more time and less pressure, or for that matter where Albon finished in the last four races. IMHO he deserves the same chance as Gasly, but worse drivers show up with considerably more money and they "buy" the midfield seats instead.

Re Ricciardo, with young and aggressive Max being his teammate, I think he saw the writing on the wall. Had he stayed at RB it would have likely ended up being a repeat of Seb and Mark Webber (remember "Multi-21"?). Beating your teammate is your biggest challenge, so when you've got someone that is willing to literally put himself and you in a position where you either lift or end up in the wall, you have to have a reality check. I can't really say that it was the wrong decision to part ways with RB - or rather, Max.

Well, now that Toto owns more of the team and also manages it, I think they'll just settle on somewhat less money for Lewis and both the owner(s) and manager will be happy. Hopefully so will Lewis and he'll take the seat, both because I highly doubt that anyone else would pay him more, and also because with Merc he has a chance to win an eighth championship next year. He delivered and earned his keep... it's Seb that needs to be worried about his pay cheque.

And, you have to give credit where credit is due. While Lewis was indeed acting as a primadonna for a number of years (which is no longer the case), you have to look at what he has achieved. Judging by results, he is the best F1 driver ever, and to his credit he won his seven championships without resorting to driving into his opponents or driving them off the track. As far as his driving etiquette goes, he won every race fair and square without any proverbial punches below the belt, which can't be said of Schumi, Prost, Vettel or Senna.

ronnie993tt

Well put 928gt.

vetfever

Not sure why you guys think MB is worried about paying LH a lot of money - they have the cash to do so.

Deciding to hire a driver like Lewis is about a lot more than just winning races, he is a huge brand and commands the world stage. Not many drivers have such a quality....

Case in point is Seb Vettel. His brand has been diminished in the last few years and he has made a lot of unforced driving errors. No surprise that 4 years into his deal Ferrari said we're not renewing...

ronnie993tt

I'm not buyin' the Hamilton brand/benefit claim, and certainly not at what they're paying him. Just because you have the cash, doesn't mean you should waste it, unless you're government of course and are pissing away other peoples' money.

928gt

I don't think it is wasted either. What other sport has the same worldwide coverage and following as F1? If soccer players like Messi and Neymar can make $72M and $70.5M respectively - those are just their salaries before endorsements - and some quarterback for the Kansas City Royals $42M per year (Patrick Mahomes, who has a 12 year contract to boot), why is Lewis not worth $45M? They all command smaller audiences and they are not actually representing a brand that ends up selling more widgets (cars in Lewis's case) as a direct result of their performance. How is what Federer, Ronaldo, Messi and Neymar bring to the world worth double what Lewis does, or for that matter LeBron James or Tiger Woods who make ~50% more than Lewis? None of them risk their lives every time they step in their respective "offices" (despite what Ronaldo would have you believe if you ever watch him writhe in apparent agony every time another player brushes against him). Here's the Forbes 2020 list of the world's highest-paid athletes - Lewis is in 13th place, and I do think that he brings more money and recognition to Mercedes than any of the 12 people ahead of him on the list do to whatever team and/or company foots their bills.

Forbes World's Highest-Paid Athletes

vetfever

Agree with what he said. Only $12 M in endorsements? Seems way low, or maybe Lewis chooses not to do so?

ronnie993tt

I don't know who pays the other guys' and it is irrelevant to this discussion because you are assuming Hamilton has value to MB and is worth what other top paid athletes are. I doubt if any actual or potential Merc buyers give a darn who drives the MB F1 cars - or even that there are MB F1 cars for that matter. Even if they did, would you not put an American or Chinese national in the seat? After all they are the biggest markets. Now that I think about it, I don't know why MB is in F1 at all other than to sell engines to other teams.... and I bet that just helps cover some fixed costs.

928gt

Of course Hamilton has value to Mercedes. That isn't an assumption on my part - that's a fact simply because they agreed to pay him what they are paying him and they are likely smarter than I am. Like any other professional sports team, the F1 teams are businesses that exist for the sole purpose of making money. If the execs at Mercedes F1 determined that Lewis is worth $45M to them, then he is. There may have been (some) ground for debate if Lewis had not won the last two championship titles, but he did. Or - are you perhaps asking if whether someone else could have done the same but at a lower cost? That is a different argument and is indeed a valid one, but it's hypothetical. Valtteri got paid $8.5M and he couldn't in the same car. Maybe George Russel or Max could, but I suspect we're not going to find out in 2021.

I may be wrong on this, but I think you are underestimating the advertising value of a manufacturer-backed racing team to a global parent company. That is true for any racing team, not just those in F1. Can you honestly say that the decision that led you to buy a Porsche was not in any way, shape or form influenced by Porsche's motorsport involvement and heritage? In other words, would you have bought and paid the same amount for the very same car you now drive if the badge on the front read Geely? An Acura NSX is arguably a better car (and a much better value) than a Ferrari, but people are indeed attracted to the badge and what it represents as a result of its motorsport pedigree a lot more than they care to admit (or possibly even realize), and they buy the Ferrari.

You raise an interesting point about the nationality of the drivers. I don't know whether people tend to show more support for their countrymen as opposed to their team - they do in some cases but not in others. There certainly have been a number of Americans in F1, but America has its own thing going and most American drivers drive in either NASCAR or IndyCar. Add to that the American public's preoccupation with pickup trucks and SUVs, and I think you have your answer. Can't comment on the Chinese... some people claim that it could possibly be racial (as in a general predisposition toward other sports and/or activities) or cultural (no ex air force jockeys looking for an adrenaline rush after WW2) , or maybe it is simply due to lack of opportunity and thus support at the required level. Like most top athletes in any sport, the majority of F1 drivers start young usually in go-kartng, but if there aren't organizations, venues and "racer dads" to encourage and finance their kids to pursue a rather expensive sport, it may never gather the necessary momentum.

ronnie993tt

Having spent the early part of my career at fairly senior levels in packaged good marketing with some of the biggest companies in the world I understand the theory, I'm just questioning the value of the team, and more specifically Hamilton, to MB. No question that some value has been added to the Porsche and Ferrari brands from racing. Note Porsche is not in F1. Like I said, I doubt F1 has much promotional value MB buyers. I have to admit, I'd take an nice vintage NSX over a Ferrari any day as many would. Check out the prices of an NSX against the equivalent year Ferrari and you'll see the market agrees. I bought a Porsche because a Gallardo would not fit down my driveway - and I'm glad I did. Gallardo -also not in F1- is way too hard to get in and out of!

928gt

Mercedes decided to [again] get into F1 with a factory team at exactly the same time they decided to massively widen the brand portfolio and started making the more plebeian cars as well as mass-producing the AMG cars (the "fake" AMGs, not the real, old school monsters of a decade ago). Mercedes now makes car models for every single imaginable market segment and some that didn't even exist until they (and arguably BMW) invented them. I don't know who came up with the abominations - er, inventions - like the coupe SUVs, but I can't possibly think of a single scenario where the same normal SUV model would not perform equally well while being much more practical and considerably less fugly. Every single "AMG" car now produces so may artificially induced farts and burps that they are not just annoying but outright ridiculous and laughable, but it is obviously working because people are gobbling up AMG branded cars that in reality have less sporting potential than a Huyndai Veloster N. Incidentally, BMW also entered F1 as a works team when they too first stared making SUVs and slapping //M badges on things that were not proper //M cars. Instead of the artificial AMG farts and burps, BMW //M cars play simulated exhaust sounds through the car's stereo.

In other words, they are trying so freakin' hard to make their cars look and sound like they are sports cars that I have to conclude that the foray into F1 as a factory team is a marketing tool. Both BMW and Merc were making F1 engines in the past, and both used to race in lower motorsport divisions (DTM) the way Porsche does. I can't think of any reason for them to do it.

ronnie993tt

I think your synopsis is bang on but still question whether it's worth it. Not to change the subject but I also find the backfarts, that don't remotely sound like a carburetor, hilarious/stupid but then I guess it's better than EV's that sound like sewing machines.

928gt

The latest speculations and updates on the subject of Hamilton and Merc F1...

The current situation at Mercedes AMG Petronas regarding Hamilton and Russell