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We use it at work all the time. Not sure if the data is available for the public or not without a request so I'm not going to go any further than that. You can contact your local municipality and ask them if then have a report on the before and after data that these signs collect.
The article that you've linked shows hardly any change to the speed before and after. If you disregards the words like, success/effective and only look at the numbers, the change is pretty much statistically insignificant. They are not an effective speed reduction method if they are kept in place for more than a few weeks. People get used to them and will ignore them.
Just providing your opinion doesn't make it so. Every study I can find says they are effective at reducing speed and increasing safety, both short and long term. Again, if you can find studies showing otherwise, please post it.
And this is not about statistical significance, it's about safety. And in terms of safety, according to the World Health Organization, studies show a decrease of even 1 km/h typically results in a 3% lower risk of a crash involving injury, with a 4–5% decrease for crashes that result in fatalities. Given that these are usually put in high-risk areas with children, I'd certainly say it's worth it.
Just providing your opinion doesn't make it so. Every study I can find says they are effective at reducing speed and increasing safety, both short and long term. Again, if you can find studies showing otherwise, please post it.
And this is not about statistical significance, it's about safety. And in terms of safety, according to the World Health Organization, studies show a decrease of even 1 km/h typically results in a 3% lower risk of a crash involving injury, with a 4–5% decrease for crashes that result in fatalities. Given that these are usually put in high-risk areas with children, I'd certainly say it's worth it.
When I have time, I will find something to make you happy. You've seem to miss the point that since traffic is dynamic and changes all the time for no reason what so ever. You can do two identical studies in two separate days under same conditions, and the data will not be identical. Therefore, when claiming a speed reduction of only a couple of mile per hour is actually insignificant and can and does relate to something other than the signs. These signs should be reducing the speeds by a large number not just a couple of mile per hour. Also, using percentage is meaningless and just makes the results look larger than what they are. For example 5% of 50km/h is only 2.5km/h. EVERYTHING is about statistical significance. The WHO figures are misleading. If you remove all traffic from a road than there will be 0% chance of a fatality between a vehicle and a pedestrian, so where do you stop reducing the speed limits? As for the children (everyone always uses the children when complaining even though the real reason is always something else) why are they on the road that is built for vehicular traffic? The HTA is clear where pedestrians are allowed and the middle of the road is not one of them. If the argument is, but they are little children playing. Where the hell are the parents and why are they allowing them to be on the road? That's why there are parks and back yards. The road is no place for a kid to be. Politicians love to please the people so they would get re-elected and since EVERYONE with a driver's license thinks is a traffic expert they push what they think is the right thing and then we end up with a total disaster that, people like me, have to deal with on a daily basis. Just look at the 30km/h school zone speed limits that were directed by Council, even though traffic engineering staff didn't recommend it, they got implemented. AND now, surprise surprise, they don't do a single thing. The police knows this so they refuse to enforce it. All this was done because it's human nature that people think they are traffic engineering experts. You are one of them. If you want to learn more about traffic engineering, take some courses.
Also, these signs are supposed to be used on local roads and not Arterial or Collectors as those roads have a primary purpose of moving traffic.
^^^ Well said.
Groups are asking for all speed limits to be lowered in the GTA. Maybe so it doesn't hurt as much when someone gets hit when j walking while looking at their phone?
Pretty rare we hear of someone on the sidewalk getting hit by a car.
40 to a 30 ? should help. I guess.
But increasing a commuters time by 25% is not fair either.
Speed is always a factor in an accident. If a car was not moving at all? That would certainly reduce the chance of accidents.
But I'm sure a phone/texting/Zombie would walk into that car. And it would still be the cars fault.
My commute used to be 20 minutes down yonge street to work. It is now 40min twice a day.
or 12, 24 hour days per year in the car going to work.
I would appreciate 25% of the time back.
.
We seem to have gotten a bit off-topic LOL..bottom line is the solar speed signs in question work to reduce speed and make the areas where they are safer on an ongoing basis, and this has been shown to be the case by numerous studies.
we live in a nanny state. they need to lower the speed limit so people are so bored they run people over cause they can't keep their attention on the road.
we live in a nanny state. they need to lower the speed limit so people are so bored they run people over cause they can't keep their attention on the road.
...and Mayor Nanny will now add fines for loud cars and stereos....
Drive fast enough and they won't hear the loud stereo and exhaust until you've passed.
Maybe I'm old school but maybe along with lowering speeds and putting up flashing speed signs, we teach people to, oh I don't know, look both ways before crossing, don't run between cars, don't run stop signs on your bikes, don't j-walk, don't text and walk, don't assume you as a pedestrian or cyclist, that you have the right of way. Even if you do, you will always lose against 2+ tons or rolling metal. Even if it's rolling at 5 kph.
...and Mayor Nanny will now add fines for loud cars and stereos....
Drive fast enough and they won't hear the loud stereo and exhaust until you've passed.
Maybe I'm old school but maybe along with lowering speeds and putting up flashing speed signs, we teach people to, oh I don't know, look both ways before crossing, don't run between cars, don't run stop signs on your bikes, don't j-walk, don't text and walk, don't assume you as a pedestrian or cyclist, that you have the right of way. Even if you do, you will always lose against 2+ tons or rolling metal. Even if it's rolling at 5 kph.
Society is being nannied into stupidity.
A big part of the frustration for me is that car drivers are targeted where laws are enforced on the drivers but pedestrians break laws and are not fined. Traffic flow is a big issue. When was the last time fines were levied on pedestrians that enter the intersection when the red hand starts flashing? The laws are quite clear that pedestrians are not to begin crossing the intersection when the red had appears. I think the countdown clock encourages pedestrians to keep entering the intersection instead of the old red solid hand. Why is there no blitz on pedestrians?
This really speaks to the war on the car. Yet, everyone has a dependency on cars, whether you own one or not.
We seem to have gotten a bit off-topic LOL..bottom line is the solar speed signs in question work to reduce speed and make the areas where they are safer on an ongoing basis, and this has been shown to be the case by numerous studies.
That is not the bottom line. Only effective if used for a short period of time (couple of weeks). Those studies are written to fit political agendas. If you wold work in the traffic engineering field for any length of time, you would know this.
Total waste of taxpayer money .... I have a neighbor a few blocks away near on of those zones and they put that sign right in front of his house. Needless to say he is totally pissed ...In the evening he can see it flashing from his front window not to mention it's a total eyesore in front of his house. I wouldn't buy his house now with that ugly thing right out front.
That is not the bottom line. Only effective if used for a short period of time (couple of weeks). Those studies are written to fit political agendas. If you wold work in the traffic engineering field for any length of time, you would know this.
This is my PROFESSIONAL opinion, I work in the public sector, in the traffic engineering department. Statistically insignificant data is not an evidence? Just step back from Google and think about it for a second.
This is my PROFESSIONAL opinion, I work in the public sector, in the traffic engineering department. Statistically insignificant data is not an evidence? Just step back from Google and think about it for a second.
That's correct, working in an industry, as a professional, and having an opinion on something in said industry, is not evidence.
If you have any real evidence from a real actual study, I'd love to see it.
07-16-2019, 05:51 PM
