the video shows my exact point. downshifting, as the formula cars do, or as the cayman R or boxster, shows keeping the RPM around 6k is needed for optimum performance. the formula car in the video does 3 downshifts at the entry and and upshift and downshift before the left turn. all keeping the RPM in the 6krpm range keeps the engien in the HP range that maximizes acceleration. go to 8:15 on the video.

the OP clearly shows the RPM with a single downshift, putting the RPM in the 3500 to 4000rpm (depending on his car) and this instantly puts him at a 50hp min deficit. i cant think of no reason for now going one more downshift. Now, if you say, it overslows the car.. i would say he or the instructor, needs to work on that error. but i dont believe that is much of a concern. this is racing and how you drive a car at max capability.

Peter has raced there.. ummm , you... probably not much.. not that it matters. we are talking fundamentals here.


Here is the cayman R i was referring to. notice in the turn 1 area, that the RPM are in the 4000 to 5000rpm. a quick additional downshift before entrance will give more control AND More hp for 5 full seconds of WOT , straight wheel performance by putting the car more in the 6krpm range. similar to the formula video

 

..

 

Are they related?

 

Haha

 

I'm sorry for coming off sharply, Adam. I appreciate your curiosity and I enjoy, as you do, the "help people understand the why behind all this."

Having worked with some of the best performing drivers in the world, in sports cars, GT's and formula cars, and observed what they do in detail to DO what they do, I can't agree with the idea; "create your own ideal line within the given track." Especially IF you are truly utilizing every bit of traction available, as often as you should be.

Driven properly, and with measured results for every foot of forward travel, the lateral placement of the car is defined in inches as much by the car as by the driver, again, driven at the proper speed. Slip angle, baby!

The more I do this, the less I am absolutely sure about any ONE thing or approach, but having been in the practical game for three and a half decades professionally, there are certain "givens," immutable "best practices" that yield the desired results, backed up by data.

As far as your reference, Rick Bell is great, but he is underutilizing his superior car (to our camera car) and the approach he takes shows the disadvantage relative to our camera car.

The relatively inexperienced OP was quicker through T3, and most importantly, did not suffer up to and out of T3, using a geometry alternate to the one you propose, driven by one of the best drivers (and dear friend and colleague) I know at LRP, SK.

So again, I apologize for sounding sharp in asking the questions and making observations. My information, practice and outcomes do not support your proposed approach, line and geometry through this complex of corners, that's all. Maybe I can buy you a beer sometime and we can talk more then.

 

One of them I respect but just disagree with in this case. The other I no longer engage with, especially when he is biologically incapable of avoiding posting derogatory and defamatory utter bullschit.

 

I think I misunderstood as I'm not sure what you are saying is different. I thought you meant you liked Rick Bell's line. Both he and the camera car are similar and did pretty good, but neither were perfect. It's hard to say why though as I'm not sure what they were trying to do, just the result. Could have just been mistakes. What exactly is your recommended approach to this sequence? I didn't see it in the thread.

 

The video Peter posted is perfect. Just stop the video at 8:50 and look at the angle. Some folks drive a line that starts with the car in the left 1/3 of the track. The line in the video uses the right 1/3 of the track and allows for a later brake point. Simon hates that line because he says it's not defensive enough for racing which is certainly true if your defending your position in a race and a competitor is on your bumper, but if you're just out for lap times the outside line is faster. The graphs I posted are 1:02.2 and 1:03.2, and the setup was not yet changed by SST so it was still on the setup as done by Nyols of Speedwerks in Nyack, NY. The car, as driven by another pro, did a 59 sec lap at Lime Rock so I guess I have my work cut out for me

 

Simon and I talk about this ALL the TIME.

IMO, the idea of a "defensive line" is BS, especially there, given you can go so much deeper before you slow it down, entering right of center and almost overshooting the entry. That said, I've passed on this ROC entry line MANY drivers who followed Adam's advice... The one that has paid dividends for you, Ben, me and been taught by the founders of SBRS for decades...

If you are preoccupied with, or driving a non-optimal, compromised line "defending your position in a race," you're not doing what you need to go as fast as you can.

Thank you for the kind words, JP66. Despite the wayward route this thread has taken...

 

Not concentrating on drivers behind me but merely being aware of their presence is my primary goal in my next race for sure!

But, in other news, related to the opening post the other aspect of which you spoke at some length was "percent time at full throttle". I now have data for my car from the previous owner that has laps down below 1:01 and two things are clear one good and one that needs work. First the good . . . I am braking in the right places and with the right amount of pressure to a point. What is obvious both from looking at the graph I posted as well as the one I have not posted of the even faster lap is that it all comes down to getting back on throttle earlier. When I put my lap up against the sub 1:01 I am even through Big Bend, but I lose time at a very steady pace the whole rest of the lap because in every turn the better driver is back on throttle milliseconds earlier than I am.

What's frustrating is that I have a life outside of racing that includes family and work so I only get 15 to 20 days a year to practice this stuff. Ah, well . . . C'est la vie

 

Usually ad hominem attacks are proof you dont have the knowledge to engage in conversation. just say'n. when you get a few races under your belt, you will see that opimizing performance in lap times is a little different than teaching students from looping their cars. *(which i have full confidence you can teach)

 

Here's the graph of which I was speaking and the reason why I need to hire you soon!!

 

one think i noticed about the flow and steering input is that you are constantly steering to the apex. meaning, you turn in, usually with out enough angle, and then as you get closer to the apex, you have a sudden thrust of steering angle. this scrubs speed. its interesting, as you would never know this unless you have the steering wheel visible in the video, (i.e. go pro cameras on the roof or dash), but you can clearly see all turns, (particularly after turn 1) especially turn 2,3,4 the uphill stands out too. listen to the tires.. they are making most noise at the apex and after the apex... you need to reverse that) . You need to brake a little later. get the downshift done a fraction of a second later than you are typically doing it going into turn1, (the revs shouldnt bang the rev limiter or get close. they should be moderate blips) and then more steering angle toward the apex.. when you are at the apex, you should be holding the appropriate steering angle, and after apex, the release and the gas are applied. (this is why i always talk about thinking about the steering wheel and the throttle being on a string... let the steering out, add throttle at the same rate)
im sure you have got a lot out of the advice so far, try the lower gears, more of your steering done earlier, before the apex and this will result in some better control and lower lap times. 59 is not too far away!

 

Looking forward to it!

 

I absolutely agree with the first and have high hopes for the second. Developing the skill to set my steering angle perfectly every time is just another element I am slowly improving, and it's funny you mention "tire squeal" as evidence of scrubbing speed as that is something Simon discussed with me as well. One step at a time . . . I don't feel too bad when I consider that I'm up to a total of 35 track days and I'm 51 . . . who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks, hah! I know I'm lucky though to have had coaching from the best of the best To all those newbies out there my best advice is spend the money and hire coaches; it will pay huge dividends in the speed of your learning, and that's not a knock on free instruction, it's just a validation of the skills of professionals.