mmuller

I have seen and worked on quite a few SPB's. From $25K cars to $80K cars. $25K is to cheap for a car to win and $80k is totally not necessary. I have a rebuilt motor in mine and it was no where near $25K. Costs are pretty good and the competition is very good (maybe the best out there).

SPB will never have an LSD. The trans is already the weak point in an SPB. LSD would just accelerate the failure rate due to more heat, which it already doesn't like.

F cars can be built cheap, but to win takes an expensive car. Anytime you have open choice on components in the rules you have the chance for the cost to grow significantly. It's why the Spec class's continue to grow and flourish.

When I was trying to make this decision when I started, I looked at where the racing was happening and the fun was. For me that was SPB and I have been very happy I did. Tires, brakes and gas is all I really do all year and in the off season take care of the maintenance items (wheel bearing's etc).

ProCoach

Letter classes are pretty good... SPC and SPB are great drivers classes.

No such thing as cheap racing if you want to be at the pointy end. Period. Any class...

ace37

I keep hearing a typical SPB motor is ~$5k and SPC motor is reportedly a little over $10k, but I suppose if you want the absolute fastest car you could double it and maybe get a 2-10% advantage in power over a junkyard motor. $25k for a SPB motor sounds ridiculous. I'm sure someone would take your money but it's unnecessary. Also Chris Cervelli is working on a dry sump system for them (cost could be $3k-$8k, not determined yet). Hopefully that goes into the rules and helps the (especially SPC) motors last so the running costs stay modest.

Cyril

+1000
Find a good mechanic, do preventive maintenance as you should do with any race car and focus on driving and mastering your SP2.
You will learn a lot with your SP2 and have a lot of fun.

Frank 993 C4S

Joe - looking forward to catching up at the Glen. What you are listing above is mostly maintenance because this stuff wears ou on any race car. Some of the other stuff you probably already know when you bought the car. For example, I do wheel bearings every year and rebuild brake calipers and shocks also. Why? Preventive maintenance - so this stuff doesn't ruin my race weekend.

Last year I bought a 4000 mile race car for a pretty competitive class and built it to the max allowed by the rules and guess what? I had to spend thousands over the past several months to make it as reliable as my old car. There was SOMETHING mechanical I struggled with during every single race so far. I even had to change the transmission this week due to likely abuse by the previous owner. You can never buy a used race car cheap enough!

Take your time stepping up to the next class. Maybe consider getting your own trailer and SUV first. For advice on specific car types, talk to people who actually drive them and don't have anmnesia about how much they actually spend doing that. Do a couple more race weekends and see what it feels like.

993944S2

At the end of 15’ a guy posted an SP2 car with a Trailex for about 11K all in. 4 race old motor, extra wheels yada, yada, yada. I was looking for a “cheap” way to get back into racing. Rennlist blew up with the standard “I can’t believe this car, for this price, is not sold yet”. So, I wired a deposit and went to pick up the car. Pictures only, no PPI. I figured for 11K the trailer was worth half. I’ve been through this before. I should have known.
The motor ran strong but was total junk. Blow-by in one cylinder. Wall scored. Out comes that motor and in goes a junk yard motor. Very nice halo seat was bolted to the floor. Made egress in my race gear impossible. New seat etc. Alignment specs for rear end showed minimum possible camber to be +4 degrees. Something obviously bent. Out goes the torsion carrier and in goes a replacement. The list goes on and on and on… Note.. I am in no way bashing the seller. In fact he was a stand up guy and sent me some cash for the motor.
In hind sight, about a month before I bought there was a fully prepped car for 14K. I mean fully prepped and owned by a shop mechanic. I would have been way ahead buying that car and finding a trailer.
At the end of the day, I still believe SP2 is the biggest bang for the buck. Good thing I enjoy the wrenching and prep as much as the driving.

Frank 993 C4S

We paid $8k for my son's SP2 car last year, had Dan Jacobs do a thorough PPI. Installed new harnesses, new battery, a used seat, new belt cover, changed fluids and cleaned up the car mechanically for $2 totalk. Car has worked perfectly for the past 10 track days and it's relatively quick.

Matt Romanowski

Truth be told!

JP66

Thanks for all the fantastic input guys!

As is always the case I did a poor job of expressing myself in my initial creation of the thread. I'm not really worried about "cheap" or saving money. I used the word cheap only to say that I bought the SP2 car because I believed it would be "cheap" and it turned out to be not as "cheap" as I thought, but I should be honest here and point out that I bought a new Recaro Pro seat, and electronic fire suppression system, and a data system, and I didn't to a lick of the work myself so right there we're talking $10k that was "discretionary".

I guess the more important question I was trying to get the truth on is are there major differences in longterm costs or other major considerations when choosing between SPB, F, or SPC? Some people with whom I am speaking are trying to convince me that there are, mostly because of engine replacement costs, but if I'm only planning 3 or 4 races a year how often does one reasonably expect to replace an engine assuming you're not abusing the one you have?

jdistefa

M96 and M97 engine failures are to some degree predictable but the timing of those failures can feel like chance.

Whoever is talking to you has a sense of the general risks but obviously little experience and certainly does not have a handle on the true costs.

Every motor has weak spots, especially when exposed to high rev, high heat stresses. So nothing is going to be perfect.

On the upside, the dry sump system being developed by Cervelli will, I think, largely solve the M96/M97 issues.

None of that should scare you away from considering SPB or SPC, but I think the advice you've received about sticking with SP2 for awhile is good.

Feel free to come chat with me at the Glen (SPC #93). I'm sure Matt Muller will offer the same re. SPB.

Gary R.

Joe - I can't speak for F or SPC but I can say that the SPB operating costs are quite low. My last transmission replacement cost under $1500 (including installation), I own a spare motor ready to install (IMS/Underdrive pulley/etc. already done) that cost me $3600 shipped from CA. You would only need a couple sets of Toyos per year for 3-4 races and practice days, they last incredibly long.. I installed my brake pads last year before the Glen race and they are still good! Wheel bearings and other wear parts have to be cycled out no matter what class car it is. 40 SPBs at the Glen, the class has officially exploded!

93 FireHawk 968

Truth........

TraqGear

I've rebuilt the engine in my F class at $12k from a Porsche dealer. Money well spent and I didn't skimp. It's been very strong since, although only 2000 miles on it since the rebuild. It's set records at Daytona, which probably means it's a better car than I am a driver. But, rebuilding also gives the opportunity to replace weak parts...the ims being a great example.

I also put a crate engine in the 996 I had with Autometrics circo 2009..pretty sure it was around $15k installed and was very strong also. In fact, maybe still in the car today.

Both times I've had issues with engines running the street for some time and then moving to the track. Not sure why..I'm not that gifted mechanically. But, with the rebuilds and replacements I had zero issues. I've always liked classes with stock engines. The money comes (and potential issues) when you take a stock engine and try to increase the hp signifactly through various means.

For the class, think about what type of personality you have. If you are super competitive, I would gravitate toward the spec classes. If you are competitive, but fun factor is most important, then letter classes. I tend to spend more money on the spec classes (miata), trying to be as competitive as possible. In SM, if anyting lacks, you won't even be in top ten. So, we are constantly on the dyno, checking rolling resistance, etc. and replacing things before they really need it.