CrookedCommie

I've got an anecdote I'll share, just as a word of warning. I had an official Mid-Ohio School Instructor drive my car, and he found 3rd instead of 5th on the back straight of Mid-Ohio. I was lucky to limp the car back home. Thankfully it was a cheap fix, but it could have resulted in a complete top end rebuild of the motor (E46 M3). By riding shotgun it was obvious where I'm losing time - his speed on corner entry was way higher, however, I don't think I'll be doing that again. The better option in my opinion is to find somebody else running a similar car, and see if you can hop in with them.

Manifold

I once instructed at an event where my student had a really nice Acura NSX. He told me that, at NSX Club DE events, instructors were routinely wrecking student's cars.

I haven't heard of anything that bad at other clubs, but I do know of a few cases here and there. In two of those cases, the instructor and student were friends - in one case, the instructor wrecked the student's car, and in other case the car was almost wrecked.

I usually advise students to get a sense of how responsible their instructor is, and maybe ride with the instructor in the instructor's car to see how the instructor drives, before asking or allowing the instructor to drive their car.

Chin has a policy that instructors aren't allowed to ask to drive their student's car. They can only drive it if invited to do so by the student, and aren't required to do so if asked. I think it's a good policy, since otherwise students can feel pressured to allow an instructor to drive their car.

sugarwood

I'm green, and I always request the instructor drive the first few laps of my first session.
First to make sure my car feels "right and this really reinforces the smooth inputs and everything.

TXE36

Other than our helmetless first green session Saturday morning I don't drive a student's car (and that session is a 3/10s). I don't want the responsibility and with a passenger seat in my car it is just not worth the risk. I've only just barely started driving friends cars and those don't cost any more than the one I bring. Even then, it is a risk.

Case in point, a friend of mine, also with an E36 M3, wanted me to drive it to feel it out. He had several people drive it. As it happened, I got too busy with my students and never drove it. The next weekend or so, it dropped a valve on the cool down lap and kerblammo. So glad I didn't have to have an awkward conversation.

I do advise after riding with me not to get "amped up" on their sessions and to drive within their limits. Ride alongs can be very helpful.

-Mike

LuigiVampa

I bring students out in my car. Since I drive a Cayman and 944 my region normally assigns me people with the same type of car and it all works out.

Not a fan of driving someone else's car as I don't want the responsibility.

When my pro coach drives my car it is insured in both our names so I don't have to worry.

ExMB

Call me what you want but I prefer to drive a student's car to show a principle in the next higher run group. That way they
1) get a better feel since its their car
2) I don't waste a HC on my not so cheap tires

bpu699

What, pray tell, happens when an instructor crashed a students car? Or, misses a shift?

I grasp that driving at a HPDE poses certain risks. Some unpredictable, acts of God, acts of stupidity, and random bad luck. As a driver, I can see accepting those risks...

But if an instructor were driving a students car, and did the money shift, how is that handled? Is the student expected to eat it? Or the instructor pushes the car and hits a wall?

From what I gather, the student eats the cost. Assuming that's the case, having an instructor drive a students car is a bad idea all around. Sure, it helps the student realize what their car can do. But if someone else crashes your car, you will not be a happy camper and you will likely feel very screwed...

Why take that risk?

mbean

We insure our car so the instructor is covered if they stuff it. While they could do a money shift, they never push it hard enough to get in that situation. I've found all the PCA instructors to be respectful of the car and while they can't control fluids from another car, I learn so much from them that it's worth it. I also appreciate the fact that all of our instructors have driven the same car (951 or 993) and know what they are like.

johneecatt

Perspective is an interesting thing. I had a student in a 997 turbo that was having a lot of trouble (very nervous), so I took him out in his car about 7/10 to give him an idea how the car should feel at speed. His eyes were like saucers when we got back, and he kept saying how good and fast I was...

Next day, for grins, I went out with the head driving instructor in his GT1 car. We set a GT1 track record - with me in the car! I've never felt so slow...

ExMB

You are assuming that instructors don't care about someone elses property, car in this case. I have as yet to meet an instructor that doesn't care. One doesn't have to go all out to demonstrate a principle.

It almost sounds like you have had some bad experiences or got hearsay and are unilaterally applying to all.

TXE36

While not seeing anything really bad, I have seen a few eyebrow raising instructors with respect to student's cars. Likely a case of YMMV.

-Mike

Veloce Raptor

An interesting topic. I would say choose wisely whom you let drive your car. In theory, I would hope that an at-fault instructor would feel some financial obligation to make things right, as long as their culpability is clearly evident. However, I have heard enough stories where this did not happen, and thus I tend to agree with the YMMV comment.

I am very conscientious when i drive someone else's car, especially in a DE. I never push beyond 7/10 to 8/10, unless the owner specifically says go for it (and traffic allows) and holds me harmless for mishaps. When I am coaching, it's a bit different, because some clients want me to push, and others just want a baseline lap and/or feedback and suggestions on set up. I try to verbally outline up front who is responsible for what sort of mishaps.

I have only ever had one sort of failure while driving someone else's car, and it was this past summer at Road America in a Ferrari Challenge car. Paddle shift so no chance of money shift. Client in the right seat, we were just getting through some traffic exiting the Carousel, and began accelerating up from about 4,000 RPM, when a soft "pop" followed by lots of smoke and flames out back. Unfortunately the fire system failed to activate despite us resetting it several times, and we were forced to bail out in the grass after the Kink. Turns out the recently rebuilt motor suffered a complete con rod failure which then penetrated the oil pan. I was mortified because it happened while I was driving, but the client and his crew recognized it was simple mechanical failure.

mglobe

i would choose very carefully who I would let drive my car. My experience has been that the instructors who are eager to drive a students car are often times exactly the ones you do NOT want driving your car. This is a broad brush statement, but I would not let an intructor who offered to drive do it. If I asked an instructor to drive, I'd be fine with it.

mglobe

Actually, I'm not sure I agree with my last sentence. Unless you have been around for a while, you won't know which instructors are the yahoos who try to jump in the drivers seat of every GT3, Gt4, McClaren,... they can find. Beware of these guys.

TXE36

This. As a newbie, almost anyone with an instructor shirt on seems impressive. It takes time to get to know the group. The list of people I've allowed to drive my car is very short.

I may not bring GT4/McLaren class hardware to the track, what I do bring I can afford to write off, but I don't kid myself. If my car gets wrecked or blows a motor it is going to suck big time and definitely put a ding in my hobby enjoyment.

The importance of judgement in this hobby simply cannot be understated.

-Mike