Paseb

Yes, it depends on the level of grip and aero

Turning at 170 kmh for corner 9, yes its fast

GentlemanRacer

170 kph through nine is faster than 911 Cup cars on slicks!!! So you must have great aero on that mini Gary. Or maybe Seb misread that. Was it 170 through the main curve of 8?

Cup cars start into the first turtles at 8 around 180-190 and get down to 165 by the middle to end. Most will begin the entry into 9 at 135-145 and slow down further.

It would be great to see some video of 170kph through 9. I certainly would not have the skill or hardware to to attempt that.

gbuff

Vince, to clarify, I'm seeing that speed just after I turn in for 8.....after that I'm concentrating on getting through the turn w/o dying while setting up for 9. Have no idea about 9; too busy watching the road! I can say that if all goes right I'm at about 74-75mph or 120+/-kph at the end of the curb out of 10. Unfortunately I don't have video equipment in the car--wish I did.

As an aside, Vince, if you drove your avatar car this year @ Mosport I think I was on track with you at one or more of the private days (EA? 6th Gear?)--beautiful car!

To the OP: Point of all of this is that you can carry a s**tload of speed through 8!


Gary

Paseb

Probably miss read it

Im at 166 kmh before turning in 9 but i slow down to be able to make the turn hehe

Keep in mind that this is a DE and im on old slicks and 3rd time im driving the car.
There is more in it, im sure.

Wild Weasel

Ah. The clarifications are helpful. I'm gonna have to go back and look at my video again.

I love reading these details as it helps put things into perspective. I looked at it last night and saw that I go through 8 at around 135-140 and my MPSS's are often screeching in protest. There's zero chance I'd get around 8 at 160+.

porsche0nut

Interesting hearing different speeds at different points. I'm edging over 200 at the end of the straight and ~140kph sustained through 8 until I brake/downshift for 9. Entry to 9 is around 115kph. (Basing this off the rpm and gear I'm in, translating via a graph in my cars manual since I am not looking at my inaccurate speedo on track!)

I guess what really matters isn't the speed relative to completely different cars at a DE though... it's relative to your previous personal best. Naturally though we all love to talk about speed!

I don't think my improvement will come by going faster through 8. I think the improvement will come by managing the entry (as has been discussed above) to carry my back straight speed longer and manage the braking better. Looking forward to building up to the later braking/turn-in after the crest and trailing into 8.

FFaust

Wow Seb, you were on fire

PPo

You have time to look at the speedometer?!?

Leave the speedo out of the car, or tape it up... shift light (yes, you need one, if you don't think you do, go faster.) oil pressure, fuel gauge, and temperature gauges should be all you need. IMHO

GentlemanRacer

Gary,

you are correct, it was sixth gear event. Car just got in from Germany 2 nights before! We were just doing about 5 laps around to make sure things were good. We tested in 2 weeks ago at TMP and will put it away for a couple of months.
It is a great car, different than the porsches a little, just in terms of inputs.
What I can do in my Cayman adjusting and adjusting through turn 8 lets say, I can't do as much in the BMW.

Point is for the OP is that different cars, and different setups require different inputs. Work your self up to better speeds by improving your inputs and getting your car settled. Then work on exit speeds and then maybe when you are brave enough, entry speeds.

I think most seasoned competent drivers (and there are many on this thread) on good tires will eventually see 155-160 speeds towards the end of eight. How you get through nine to ten is entirely driver dependent and "*****" dependent. I have eventually after 1.5 years become comfortable with a line through there that peels off exit of eight into 9 early and with a mid track out and tap and turn into 10. I find that I can really accelerate through the straight at 9-10 and pick up speed. See Seb's video, thats how I do it. Plus it has the added advantage of blocking some opponent trying to pass at the end of 8 or at the entrance to 10

BTW, I would believe that Gary could hit 170 through 9 - Its sometimes not an RS blowing by you, its Gary in the mini

gbuff

Thanks for the kind words, Vince--I knew that was the car!

For me, being in a slow car, there's no such thing as "slow in, fast out"--it's gotta be fast in and out (that sounds bad ). So for me, in that sequence of turns, the bravery factor is more for 8 i.e. how fast do I dare enter that turn and be able to drive my way out of it, and then how late can I brake for 9 w/o screwing up the entry. This year I've been toying with brake/no brake through 10--feels better with a tap but exit speed is just slightly faster without (if I don't find myself coasting up to 10 in anticipation of not braking). Again, this is all in a track day setting.....I see some of the stuff you guys pull off during a race, be it live or via video, and it blows my mind

Gary

FFaust

9 to 10 is a great place to pass in a race, provided you carry enough speed through 9 to own 10. Gonna be a long winter.

Vince, we need to talk about this new car of yours.

pontifex4

I'm so jealous of you guys with your recent trips to Mosport.

I'm just some guy on the internet, but to echo something Francois says, thoroughly using the last car-length of inside curb at T1 will set you up for a much more comfortable exit.

I personally agree with Vince here, perhaps because we both have been driving relatively front-heavy cars -- a little brake at T10 to help with rotating the car (what he's referring to here as 'tap') and then early power to stabilize before the apex makes for a much nicer run down the front straight than squaring the corner off with a long, straight brake zone as you generally do in this video.

This is really where the payoff is with the treatment of 8-9-10 as gradually decelerating esses, rather than three (or four) unique turns. It means combining a number of elements successfully, but it's great fun and makes that whole section feel like a pendulum -- the steering wheel will wind smoothly and continuously out of 8 and into 9, then out of 9 and into 10.

You're obviously a capable driver with good pace. Time to think about putting a proper race seat in that car to give your hands a break from hanging on to hold yourself upright!

porsche0nut

Absolutely not! Re-read the part you quoted in your response

Speedometer isn't accurate anyway, even if I did want to look at it.

crooster

Regarding double apexing turn 8. Intuitively this has never felt right to me, nor have I seen any of the fast pros doing this. The only reason. I can see doing it is in a race as a defensive line. Can anyone lead me thru the thinking on this?

Paseb

keeping Inside in 8 is the defensive line in a race, but a lot of drivers including myself will try going on the outside cause your overslowing the car by protecting the Inside.

only data will tell you which line is faster. But i have no clue as i have never watched any data.