Your first time on slicks, what did you learn?
10-18-2016, 01:43 PM
#16
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I've actually found the opposite to be true having gone back and forth between NT01s and PSS a few time recently. Once the PSS start squealing, that's all you are going to get out of them before they completely give way and both feet go in. NT01s seem to start slipping at somewhere near the same point, maybe a little faster, but you can really lean in to them as they have a whole more grip to give before they are going to give way. Just my experience though and I do believe that car setup has an impact on this.
And for the OP's question, of " what did i learn? " .. I learned that they don't slide around as much, have much more grip and are much faster!
ive been able to overdrive the heck out of R6-7s, etc and they always have a lot more grip, even in a push than a street tire. sure they talk about the narrow slip angle range, but usually anyone in trouble with over driving the car in the early stages is well beyond the slip angles. (in other words, nothing would save them if they lost control or were over the edge )
10-18-2016, 02:06 PM
#17
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I've actually found the opposite to be true having gone back and forth between NT01s and PSS a few time recently. Once the PSS start squealing, that's all you are going to get out of them before they completely give way and both feet go in. NT01s seem to start slipping at somewhere near the same point, maybe a little faster, but you can really lean in to them as they have a whole more grip to give before they are going to give way. Just my experience though and I do believe that car setup has an impact on this.
10-18-2016, 02:12 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
One point that has not been mentioned yet: the window in which most R compound tires such as the Hoosier R7 are really really good is really really small. After a few heat cycles there is a perceptible drop in performance that continues until there is a dramatic drop in performance. It then becomes a difficult decision as to how long to run them.
There will be lots of opinions as to how long R compounds will last and how long you should run them. It's very driver, car, and track dependent. Many factors influence tire wear. But I can tell you that it has been a very long time since I ran a set of tires to the point where I am seeing cords.
There will be lots of opinions as to how long R compounds will last and how long you should run them. It's very driver, car, and track dependent. Many factors influence tire wear. But I can tell you that it has been a very long time since I ran a set of tires to the point where I am seeing cords.
10-18-2016, 02:12 PM
#19
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10-18-2016, 02:31 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
One point that has not been mentioned yet: the window in which most R compound tires such as the Hoosier R7 are really really good is really really small. After a few heat cycles there is a perceptible drop in performance that continues until there is a dramatic drop in performance. It then becomes a difficult decision as to how long to run them.
There will be lots of opinions as to how long R compounds will last and how long you should run them. It's very driver, car, and track dependent. Many factors influence tire wear. But I can tell you that it has been a very long time since I ran a set of tires to the point where I am seeing cords.
There will be lots of opinions as to how long R compounds will last and how long you should run them. It's very driver, car, and track dependent. Many factors influence tire wear. But I can tell you that it has been a very long time since I ran a set of tires to the point where I am seeing cords.
10-18-2016, 02:46 PM
#21
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Yes, as you are starting out and coming up to speed. That is the correct way to alternate sets, too.
As you get close to the very pointy end of the grid, and tenths will get you track position (and/or confidence enough to do so), two new sets are in the cards...
As you get close to the very pointy end of the grid, and tenths will get you track position (and/or confidence enough to do so), two new sets are in the cards...
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10-18-2016, 02:52 PM
#22
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Just trying to visualize my race "budget" with stickers for each race....yeah, even divorce would be cheaper. 
YMMV, so tire brand/type, number of heat cycles, car set-up and durability are all interconnected. I don't know of any Club racers using more than two sets of stickers in a two 30 minute sprint race/one 60/90 minute enduro weekend. But, hey, there's a lot of money at the track.
YMMV, so tire brand/type, number of heat cycles, car set-up and durability are all interconnected. I don't know of any Club racers using more than two sets of stickers in a two 30 minute sprint race/one 60/90 minute enduro weekend. But, hey, there's a lot of money at the track.
10-18-2016, 02:56 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
oh god no. one set of R7s should be good for two weekends. at a min, 10 heat cycles . but the way to do it if you are serous, even as cheap as i race, you get a second set of rims. use those for pracitce and qualifying if its not going to be a big deal .5 seconds off the pace, and only race on the new set. that way, you get about at least 3-4 weekends out of the new set. If a set of rims can be bought for $1500 used, it pays for themselves over the second set of tires.
10-18-2016, 02:57 PM
#24
Drifting
I learned that I can't afford to compete with the guys on fresh tires every event
Really I think the differences when changing to an R-comp tend to get exaggerated. Just get them hot on the first lap and drive. Your first time on a sticky tire you aren't likely to be near the full capability of the tire anyway.
Really I think the differences when changing to an R-comp tend to get exaggerated. Just get them hot on the first lap and drive. Your first time on a sticky tire you aren't likely to be near the full capability of the tire anyway.
10-18-2016, 03:17 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by mark kibort
I think he was comparing a DOT race tire, Nitto vs the street tire, PSS.. no?
10-18-2016, 03:17 PM
#26
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One of the first things any conscientious tire dealer or manufacturer's engineer will tell you is that the WAY you break in the tire and HOW LONG the subsequent delay (for curing time) is until you use the tire in anger is extremely important in determining the consistency and longevity of the set. Spencer and Simon can fill you in, but while you will want to use your previous weekend race tires for testing and practice (and maybe even deeper into the weekend), you'll want to "scrub in" or go through the VERY SPECIFIC break in procedure proscribed by the manufacturer. Often on Thursday (or Friday morning), I'll scuff in my race set, then take them off and set them aside.
For people on a budget, they often run too long on tires, which saps confidence. In my racing, where we often have more than half a dozen people within a few tenths, two sets per weekend was mandatory for me and everyone around me. But we were all going near track record pace...
Tires are so much more than round rubber doughnuts. They are your ONLY connection with Mother Earth. My frequent professional advice for those seeking to improve is to make sure you have a consistent underpinning for your performance, and that starts with uncompromised tires...
In GTB1, GTA2 and GTD, new tires can provide the winning difference...
For people on a budget, they often run too long on tires, which saps confidence. In my racing, where we often have more than half a dozen people within a few tenths, two sets per weekend was mandatory for me and everyone around me. But we were all going near track record pace...
Tires are so much more than round rubber doughnuts. They are your ONLY connection with Mother Earth. My frequent professional advice for those seeking to improve is to make sure you have a consistent underpinning for your performance, and that starts with uncompromised tires...
In GTB1, GTA2 and GTD, new tires can provide the winning difference...
10-18-2016, 04:56 PM
#27
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I've been doing DEs on street cars with aggressive street tires such as the PSS, Advan, etc.
In either August or September the battery on my 997 GTS died the morning of a NASA DE I had signed up for, so I rented a SPB for the day instead. They had it on R7s, and that was my first time on DOT slicks. I started out slow, but I was running a NASA DE in the intermediate HPDE 2/3 group and at the last session I had nearly lapped the slower cars in the run group. I might have been underclassed, but I was significantly faster in the SPB than in my 997 GTS on street tires. This despite the car, tires, and track configuration all being new to me as of that morning.
I didn't find the R7s difficult or unintuitive - I just steadily built up speed in each corner until I could feel and hear they were giving me all they had or near to it. While I couldn't even out-drag a VW GTI, I carried a tremendous amount more speed than before in every corner, so every time a curve came up I put a ton of distance on other cars. I was amazed at how much more fun it was to run sticky tires on a lightweight car like that as compared to my 911 (with twice as much power).
Instead of doing the dual use thing I'd been planning to have my next 911 be a street car and get a dedicated track car for DEs that is or can become a race car when my skills are stronger. Renting the SPB greatly reinforced that - it was a lot more fun with a lot less at risk.
In either August or September the battery on my 997 GTS died the morning of a NASA DE I had signed up for, so I rented a SPB for the day instead. They had it on R7s, and that was my first time on DOT slicks. I started out slow, but I was running a NASA DE in the intermediate HPDE 2/3 group and at the last session I had nearly lapped the slower cars in the run group. I might have been underclassed, but I was significantly faster in the SPB than in my 997 GTS on street tires. This despite the car, tires, and track configuration all being new to me as of that morning.
I didn't find the R7s difficult or unintuitive - I just steadily built up speed in each corner until I could feel and hear they were giving me all they had or near to it. While I couldn't even out-drag a VW GTI, I carried a tremendous amount more speed than before in every corner, so every time a curve came up I put a ton of distance on other cars. I was amazed at how much more fun it was to run sticky tires on a lightweight car like that as compared to my 911 (with twice as much power).
Instead of doing the dual use thing I'd been planning to have my next 911 be a street car and get a dedicated track car for DEs that is or can become a race car when my skills are stronger. Renting the SPB greatly reinforced that - it was a lot more fun with a lot less at risk.
10-18-2016, 05:45 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I know many folks here think paying for tire scrubbing from the seller is a joke, but have you ever collected hard data comparing tires broken in on a track properly versus tires supposedly broken in using the tire company machines?
I've been doing DEs on street cars with aggressive street tires such as the PSS, Advan, etc.
In either August or September the battery on my 997 GTS died the morning of a NASA DE I had signed up for, so I rented a SPB for the day instead. They had it on R7s, and that was my first time on DOT slicks. I started out slow, but I was running a NASA DE in the intermediate HPDE 2/3 group and at the last session I had nearly lapped the slower cars in the run group. I might have been underclassed, but I was significantly faster in the SPB than in my 997 GTS on street tires. This despite the car, tires, and track configuration all being new to me as of that morning.
I didn't find the R7s difficult or unintuitive - I just steadily built up speed in each corner until I could feel and hear they were giving me all they had or near to it. While I couldn't even out-drag a VW GTI, I carried a tremendous amount more speed than before in every corner, so every time a curve came up I put a ton of distance on other cars. I was amazed at how much more fun it was to run sticky tires on a lightweight car like that as compared to my 911 (with twice as much power).
Instead of doing the dual use thing I'd been planning to have my next 911 be a street car and get a dedicated track car for DEs that is or can become a race car when my skills are stronger. Renting the SPB greatly reinforced that - it was a lot more fun with a lot less at risk.
In either August or September the battery on my 997 GTS died the morning of a NASA DE I had signed up for, so I rented a SPB for the day instead. They had it on R7s, and that was my first time on DOT slicks. I started out slow, but I was running a NASA DE in the intermediate HPDE 2/3 group and at the last session I had nearly lapped the slower cars in the run group. I might have been underclassed, but I was significantly faster in the SPB than in my 997 GTS on street tires. This despite the car, tires, and track configuration all being new to me as of that morning.
I didn't find the R7s difficult or unintuitive - I just steadily built up speed in each corner until I could feel and hear they were giving me all they had or near to it. While I couldn't even out-drag a VW GTI, I carried a tremendous amount more speed than before in every corner, so every time a curve came up I put a ton of distance on other cars. I was amazed at how much more fun it was to run sticky tires on a lightweight car like that as compared to my 911 (with twice as much power).
Instead of doing the dual use thing I'd been planning to have my next 911 be a street car and get a dedicated track car for DEs that is or can become a race car when my skills are stronger. Renting the SPB greatly reinforced that - it was a lot more fun with a lot less at risk.
I have the same plan of building progressively with speed on my first day. I only hope I have the discipline to stick to the plan
Just like everything else in this hobby
