M758

Mark,
I also heard from a BMW racer that Mobil 1 sucked. He recommended Amsoil or Redline also. I had failure with Mobil 1 and I think 100% of the 944-spec cars are running mobil 1. I thought it was a good idea .

I am really thinking I will be changing oil very soon. I have seen oil pressure at RPM drop off with mobil 1. Normal pressure is 5 bar on my stock gauge. I have seen as low as 3 bar at 5000 rpm on the track. I thought it was normal.
Maybe not.

1FastRedSC

An extra thought to throw in, when my father and i where in the early stages of modding out his 951 motor, we had the choice of either putting in a 3.0 crank and making a 2.8 or boring it out and going to 2.7. Well some 44 racers in close business with the machine shop that we were working with told him not to do the crank. When we asked why they said that they had been doing the 2.8 with the 3.0 crank, but it turned out the bearing where failing more than the 2.5 cranks. Then under there personal close inspection, the one thing all the cranks that failed shared was the inside of the bearing were scored worse than the outside. Their theory was the centripedal acceleration was soooo great at rpm with a large stroke that the oil was being pulled to the outside meaning contact on the inside race was taking place. All the 911's have much shorter strokes (and dry sump lube) than 944's and 28's except maybe the 3.6 (although off the top of my head i'm not sure).

Mike Buck

I tell people all the time that Redline is so much better than Mobil 1. Having driven with both on track, the difference isn't subtle . . . its dramatic!

Everyone complains about the cost . . . hello, its only your engine!!! Think about that cost!

mark kibort

Just from my experience in our #2 back up 928 race car, we saw 2 bar dips, and even 4 bar dips with redline on very hot days, and at the end of sessions. (even the oil pressure light would come on and blink as the pressure was so low!!) The other 2 928 race cars Ive owned, were at 5 bar (pegged)at 2000rpm and higher and never dipping on Amzoil!!

I think the real racers are just finding out how CRAPPY Mobil 1 is for racing. for street use, heck, I think wesson oil would work!!!

MK

Paul Bloomberg

I have had the same experience as Joe with Mobile 1. regarding the oil pressure drop I also thought the pressure drop was normal as long as it didn't get to low. My oil pressure would drop from 5 bar to 3 bar in a 30 minute race.
After reading some of the comments regarding M1 at this past weekends race I purchased a case of Redline 15/50 for the 2 Hour ASRA Santa Dash Enduro.

Perhaps Joe can purchase some Amsoil and run it in the 2 HR enduro that we are both racing in this Nov.
We could compare oil pressure level to see which one dropped the most???

Paul
#51 944-Spec

Derrek Khajavi

There are some other good discusions going on with M758 and I on the 944 boards, who disagree on some issues and agree on others but one fact that remains is that although many have had failed rod bearings with cross-drilled cranks and non-crossdrilled cranks, accusumps, baffled pans etc..., none have failed with the Huntley Racing Perp Drill process found here: http://www.huntleyracing.com/cranks_special_info.htm Results are difficult to refute with over 100 cranks out there!!

pig4bill

It seems unlikely the oil pump is cavitating. 944 engines just don't rev all that high.

M758

Derrick,
Of those 100 cranks how many were for race motors?
How many had knife edge work?
How many went in to cars with baffled pans?
How many have accusumps?
What oil are they using?
How carefull in maintaing oil level are owners?

The more I look at this issues the more I feel that the oiling to the rod bearings is marginal. Using more RPM as in a race motor and high G cornering just eat-up more of that small margin. I feel that doing the stuff we have been takling about serves in gain back some of that margin. Doing just one of this things helps. Doing a few helps even more. What this means is that unless we "Solve" the problem the engines will still be marginal. Our best plan as drivers or shops is to try to add back some margin and hope it is enough.

JJG

Derrick,
Maybe we can get some of your customers to chime in on the topic and describe their experience with some granularity. Really, there are probably 48 potential new customers intent on learning more.

M758

Mark,
Is this the Amsoil you have been so sucessfull with?

mark kibort

I dont think you see any diff between redline, Amzoil and even kendall 20-50. however, with Mobil 1 it seems everybody is seeing this weird 1-2 bar pressure drop when hot and think its normal. Like I said, of the 928s with 2-6 bearing falure (catostrophic), 90% of the guys were running mobil 1.

Ive never seen a drop in pressure. I have EVERY lap video tape and you can see my guage in most all videos. even turn 2 at Willow. turn 2 at Thunderhill, the sweeper at Buttonwillow, in 110degree race heat!!

Mobil 1 is cheap and evil!!


FOR SURE, LET US KNOW if the oil pressures come back in your enduro race with the different oil vs Mobil 1

The real test is with a car Ive owned and sold. I used mobil1 before I really knew there was a diff. In driving the car to the buyer, I noticed the pressure drop in the hot outside temps. when he changes to redline or amzoil, he will tell me the pressure situation. You guys will probably know and see the difference sooner, so let us know!


MK

mark kibort

THATS THE STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

$7.5 a quart mail order, and $8.75 a quart retail.

I used to use Redline, but with my car and its power and the g's im pulling, in not taking any chances. (I used to change my kendall l20--50 after every hard race weekend. now, I change it after 3 race weekends.) total cost is still the same!!

MK

Alan C.

I've made it through 2 seasons with Mobil 1 and an accusump. Might be switching to Amsoil next season. I see about a 1 bar drop when the motor gets hot.

New rod bearings are going in this Winter. It will be interesting to see what they look like.

Alan C.

Derrek Khajavi

Regarding the breakdown of cranks sold that were also knife edged, without taking lots of time to look them all up I would say 80%-90% are also Knife edged, lightened, and upgraded to thread in plugs vs. press in plugs as well as very extreme balancing. Most the customers that I have sold cranks to are racers either dedicated or part time. Also most dont run Accusumps or baffled pans but a few have one or the other. Many of the cranks are in our 8V 2.8 and 3.1 ltr motors and 16V 3.2-3.4 ltr varients including several engines that are turning 8000+ RPM with solid lifters. I truly believe that if we were going to have problems we would have seen them years ago. I absolutly agree that the more you do to improve the oiling the better. That being said I dont prescribe to Accusumps, baffled pans (I have never had a pickup uncover), or overfilling the oil. Perp drilled, knife edged, screw-in plugs, good oil (we use TORCO Race oils with MTZ), running good oil coolers if you are getting up there in temps, or Dry sump if done right.

As far as my customers chiming in here, thats up to them. I know several that come to Rennlist ocationally so we will see if they post.

Charlie944

Just wanted to concur that Amsoil is one of the best out there for oils. I have run the High Perf. 10w-40 in my street 2.5L 944 with great results such as: prolonged unchanged viscosity, cleanliness, and longer drain intervals. I full intend to use the Series 2000 20w-50 as posted above here for my rebuilt 951 long blocked 83' Callaway Turbo 944 which I recently acquired. Please feel free to check out: http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com for more information, tests, results, and testimonials. I sent out for the packet of information about a year ago and it came chock full of great information...I was definitley sold on Amsoil!

Hope this helps...take care!!