nowata

yeah so this e36 m3 must really fly to be claiming 2:07 lap time. i'm not a particularly fast driver. nor am i looking to set lap records. i just want a capable car that allows me to sharpen driving skills. and a certain amount of reliability is nice too.

i hpde at BIR and Road America and it would be nice to move out of the intermediate groups but the advanced groups are too fast to be enjoyable in a slow car. i'm running low 2's at BIR in a stock bmw e46 330i sedan (avatar) on R compounds and best is a 2:57 at RA on street tires. Ultimately, lap times for me are just a measure of consistency and progression. it's hard to find a clean lap without traffic during DE's anyway.

gbuff

For DEs I wouldn't worry too much about how fast or slow my car is.....I drive a low (121) hp car in the advanced run groups regularly (i.e. this coming weekend @ Mid-O with OVR) and don't have a problem pointing faster cars by; if anything, I DO at times have problems with getting point-bys after studying the rear bumper of the car in front for awhile . What it will do for you is develop your situational awareness; you'll learn who is driving what and how well, and you'll learn to get the faster cars by you in a seamless fashion (some organizations such as Chin demand this in their advanced run group) so you can both get on with it. Plus, with the extended passing that many of the PCA advanced run groups are practicing (passing anywhere on track, including turns, with a point) you'll learn to drive all over the track, on- and off-line. Invaluable experience if you're serious about improving your driving skills on a racetrack.

And, as the saying goes, it's a blast to drive a "slow" car fast

Get as much seat time as you can, and enjoy!
Gary

Olemiss540

Road America will be tough in
anything under 300hp during an advanced HPDE session, but that goes without saying.

Otherwise, I LOVE my e36 for both reliability and feel. And the fact you can buy prepared RL track cars for 15k makes the hobby that much easier to enjoy more frequently! Also, body panels and other parts are silly cheap as they shared then with all other mass produced 3 series of that era.

A 993 would be amazing, but considering the fact that it costs 3 times as much, it damn well should be.....

I vote e46 m3 and split the difference. Plenty of power (330 hp vs 247 hp) for road Atlanta and can be found in the 18k to 20k range prepared for HPDE. Fits 275 NT01S under stock fenders and pretty dang reliable if it is properly cared for.

jlanka

^this.

Loving my SPB, and when I've driven in the advanced run groups I always try to give early passes. Even in lower groups. People say I'm the King of passes.

RickBetterley

RickBetterley's rule of track car purchases - buy the one that makes your heart flutter.
If you're not concerned with racing classifications, a big part of the fun is loving the car. Acquiring it, driving it, looking at it, caring for it, helping it find a new home eventually.
Not that I don't want a fast, reliable car and being able to afford it goes without saying, but I want a car that makes me happy.
Kind of like my old 993 ex-G class club racer and my current Cayman.

RickBetterley

You're right, the 993 is an awesome car, but at the current resale values I'd be hard pressed to consider taking a street 993 on the track.
When I was selling mine a few folks said 'convert it back to a street car and it will be more valuable' but that ship had long since sailed.

docwyte

There's a reason why there are so many E36 M3's at track events. They're reliable cars that are easy to push as they have no bad habits. They also punch well above their weight as far as track performance goes.

Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, easy to wrench on with large parts support.

A 993 is a super cool car, no doubt. You just have to decide whether you're willing to pay 3-4X just to purchase it compared to a completely prepped E36 M3, then the higher costs to maintain it vs an M3...

Slakker

+1 on this. The '99 C2 6MT is my favorite car, out of any car. Having one for a DD and one for the track is an amazing luxury and keeps me from ever looking at other cars with envy. I'm all about making logical decisions when it comes to business and but cars and family are the two areas I let the emotions win (as long as they don't break the bank of course.)

alexaqui

As someone who built an E36 M3 last season the costs are crazy. Well done used track-focused E36s seem to hit a sweet spot in the mid 20's. It will cost far more than that to build one up, assuming you can find a clean one.

That being said, even without being fully built, my E36 drove like a dream on track. It is a great chassis with room for more power via an engine upgrade if you are willing to spend the money (10-14k).

nowata

The e36 is a euro 3.2 making 291rwhp. That's pretty strong and it looks like a very nice build. I haven't been impressed by any sub $20k e36's out there. But that is pretty proud price for a commodity car.

Olemiss540

One of those JUST SOLD for 17 or 18k a few weeks back..... or maybe the sale fell through, eigther way it seemed like a STEAL. Only downside is I believe it had a single adjustable Koni setup with coilover conversion kit. Not that it is a problem as it is the same setup that I run, just seemed like an extremely well built car to have a set of 600 dollars OTS Koni's on it.... Apologies if it is a different car.

alexaqui

That's the problem with these cars... some of them have top end equipment followed up with low-end stuff. It makes you wonder what other corners were cut. Just looking at racing junk and other forums, "well built" E36s seem to be in the mid 20s.

As for other's comments about high pricing on a "commodity" car... remember that all of the aero, engine, cage, suspension, safety gear costs pretty much the same no matter what car you put it in. When building my M3, most of the parts were pretty cheap to get it to run reliably (and rather quickly) The big ticket $$$$ are what I just mentioned, which I believe are pretty universal.

The other nice part of an E36 is that once you have the parts and if you wreck it (like I did), you can buy donor cars in the 2-3k range all day long.

NYC993

it's only paper gains. Either sell it or drive it like it was meant is the way I see it (seem like you do too). No such thing as cheap track car.

I'm a bit skeptical about these "bargain" 18-20k track e36 cars. Cars are "cheap" for a reason. Purchase price and brake pads are not the only expense. Even good SPB costs more.

hinchcliffe

As I have moved through the ranks of the "moving chicane" family it's amazing the dollars per second that can be spent on track. My current e46 (328 with 221k miles) is at about $6000 all in and I can get 2:40 to 2:30 pending traffic at Watkins, but I can drive it hard because of the costs. For 10X you can get to low 2:00 laps without knowing how to consistently hit your marks..

Yes I have to wrench on it, part of the fun... But the learning you can do at the low speed and how fast you can get your arm out the window to handle traffic is awesome. Until I can consistently get that corner or onto this straight away fast the higher horsepower is useless to me.

I vote if you have the cash go big and learn to drive with seat time in that stock car before spending for someone else's money pit.

Paddy

Or buy my well sorted 993

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...995-993-a.html