Which do you think is the most competitive class in PCA club racing? Why?
10-02-2016, 07:13 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
I agree with Seb in that GTB1 is a very competitive class because the fields are relatively large, the skill level of drivers is very high and the cars that are thrown into the class (996, Gen I Cayman, Gen II Cayman, Gen II Cayman with PDK) will do better on some tracks than others. Even with similar lap times, the different types will all have different speed advantages on different parts of the track. Given that most everything but motor and gears are free rule wise, car set-up nuances also make a huge difference. That means that staying ahead requires experience, racecraft, preparation and strategy and not just driver skill alone which makes the outcome on most GTB1 races rather unpredictable and therefore competitive.
Spec and some letter classes like SPB and E have much more homogeneous and more equally matched car populations (i.e. They seem to be more equally matched car to car) but the races seem to be more predictable in terms of outcome since it is largely driver skill.
Spec and some letter classes like SPB and E have much more homogeneous and more equally matched car populations (i.e. They seem to be more equally matched car to car) but the races seem to be more predictable in terms of outcome since it is largely driver skill.
I think the spec classes are the most competitive as long as there are numbers. 30 E cars at road america this year.
10-02-2016, 07:17 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
I stood in turn 5 at road america at the starts of the run group with the E cars as well as the run group with the cup cars.
it was intense. The slicing and dicing at the front. Usually things settle down by lap 2. There were epic battles for the first 8 laps.
Just my opinion
10-02-2016, 07:23 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by stujelly
I love GTB-1 and learned a lot in that class and was part of developing the cayman to the fullest extent. But GTB-1 has become such an arms race, won in the shop not on the track. Just my opinion but probably the biggest disparity in lap times in a class from the fastest to the slowest just because of the cost of development.
I think the spec classes are the most competitive as long as there are numbers. 30 E cars at road america this year.
I think the spec classes are the most competitive as long as there are numbers. 30 E cars at road america this year.
Arm and a race cause slicks are 2000$ a set and some use 4x set per we. But use 1x set per weekend and its like any other class. I use one set of r7 when i race in F class, same for gtb1. Im not ashame to say that 1set is what i can pay.
But i see 5-8 sec lap difference in both the classes i run. And its not a matter of car budget.
They're slower and faster drivers out there. Everyone needs to find their spot in that.
10-02-2016, 09:01 PM
#34
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I love GTB-1 and learned a lot in that class and was part of developing the cayman to the fullest extent. But GTB-1 has become such an arms race, won in the shop not on the track. Just my opinion but probably the biggest disparity in lap times in a class from the fastest to the slowest just because of the cost of development.
I think the spec classes are the most competitive as long as there are numbers. 30 E cars at road america this year.
I think the spec classes are the most competitive as long as there are numbers. 30 E cars at road america this year.
Agreed!
10-02-2016, 09:03 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Steven, i dont agree with you 100%.
Arm and a race cause slicks are 2000$ a set and some use 4x set per we. But use 1x set per weekend and its like any other class. I use one set of r7 when i race in F class, same for gtb1. Im not ashame to say that 1set is what i can pay.
But i see 5-8 sec lap difference in both the classes i run. And its not a matter of car budget.
They're slower and faster drivers out there. Everyone needs to find their spot in that.
Arm and a race cause slicks are 2000$ a set and some use 4x set per we. But use 1x set per weekend and its like any other class. I use one set of r7 when i race in F class, same for gtb1. Im not ashame to say that 1set is what i can pay.
But i see 5-8 sec lap difference in both the classes i run. And its not a matter of car budget.
They're slower and faster drivers out there. Everyone needs to find their spot in that.
I understand what you are saying but you know what I mean. 3 sets of slicks verse 1 set is 4k plus more a weekend. PDK and 6 speed cars are not equal even with 100 lbs. Should completely different classes. Paddle shift or leave in drive way easier than manual shifting. Diffs, shocks, carbon fiber doors, decklid lexan windows just adds up. It is a relatively open class that is all I am saying. GTB-1 was fast at sebring 4 years ago running low .30s. Now you have to be below a .20 to be competitive.
10-03-2016, 08:52 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
What Frank and Seb said. I have 9 podiums this year in GTB1 (no wins) in a Gen II 6 speed. The car has not had one new developmental part on it all year. The only developmental part that has been developed is the old guy behind the wheel. The improvements have definitely not been shop related. I use 1 new set of tires each weekend typically.
There are 75 drivers that have scored PCA points this year in GTB1. We are typically the 2nd or 3rd largest class behind SPB and something else. The cars are expensive to run and very fast.
There are about 128 drivers that have scored PCA points this year in SPB. Usually a bigger group.
There are 75 drivers that have scored PCA points this year in GTB1. We are typically the 2nd or 3rd largest class behind SPB and something else. The cars are expensive to run and very fast.
There are about 128 drivers that have scored PCA points this year in SPB. Usually a bigger group.
Last edited by Chris P Lewis; 10-03-2016 at 09:58 AM.
10-03-2016, 09:46 AM
#37
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E has been quite competitive, which is why I selected that class from the beginnig. That being said, on average the letter classes are declining somewhat, especially those based on the appreciating older 911'S. I would also say the SPB is a great class with large turnouts and competition.
10-03-2016, 10:41 AM
#38
Rennlist Member
As time goes on and the 911's either get put away due to value or attrition I think E will be populated more and more by Boxster's as they are so readily available and relatively cheap. "Competitive Class" to me means highly populated class with tight racing so my vote is for SPB as it's growing like crazy on the East coast while most other classes are stagnant or shrinking. The SP1-3 classes look to be a hoot, but those motors and transmissions (i'm told) are getting as expensive as a 911 to rebuild properly, I have a $3500 spare motor ready to install and just bought a transmission for $500 (and am being given one as a spare for free that I need to put my open diff in!)..
10-04-2016, 08:45 AM
#40
Rennlist Member
10-04-2016, 09:46 AM
#42
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
10-04-2016, 10:50 AM
#43
Drifting
Too many Porsche purists out there that believe the engine must be in the rear - even with rising car values, there will always be a large crowd racing the cheaper of the 911s. That is E now. D is dead.
80 people raced their E car this year.
The big guns came to the big tracks. 30+ cars at Sebring, Watkins, Road America.
Long live E !!!!!!!!!
80 people raced their E car this year.
The big guns came to the big tracks. 30+ cars at Sebring, Watkins, Road America.
Long live E !!!!!!!!!
10-04-2016, 10:56 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
After giving it some more thought, this simple equation seems to be valid in every racing organization:
competitive = spec class + large fields
competitive = spec class + large fields