Ever had a student... - Page 2 - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Ever had a student...

Reply

Old 09-20-2016, 08:58 AM
  #16
tvr-4
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
tvr-4's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 146
Default

Very refreshing - after seeing the title, I was almost positive another "flatout" was coming.

Also, nice job progressing the guy at his pace. Sometimes instructors are stuck on one-size-fits-all pattern which isn't always great for the student.
tvr-4 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 10:20 AM
  #17
Wild Weasel
User
 
Wild Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 527
Default

Damn!! I've done a few DE's now and like to think I'm doing a pretty good job but I wouldn't dream of turning my stability control off.

Do instructors usually suggest that eventually?
Wild Weasel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 10:31 AM
  #18
TXE36
User
Thread Starter
 
TXE36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 1,995
Default

Originally Posted by Wild Weasel View Post
Damn!! I've done a few DE's now and like to think I'm doing a pretty good job but I wouldn't dream of turning my stability control off.

Do instructors usually suggest that eventually?
One problem is stability control in modern cars is it is getting very, very good and it can be hard from the right seat to feel it going off. On older cars, it was very obvious. Then there is the issue of the stability control catching the car and it begs the question of would the student be able to catch it without the crutch?

The case I presented here is very unique. This student was gifted in both the skill and judgement departments. He knew turning off the TC would induce some more risk and backed off appropriately, then worked his speed back up. Overall, he wasn't worried about his speed, he was concerned about driving correctly. There were even times he backed off significantly during a session to get his head together and then he speeded up again - like I said, very good judgement.

For cars with intrusive TC, it does eventually get switched off. If it is not intrusive, there is no reason to turn it off other than to verify the driving performance is the driver, not the car.

-Mike
TXE36 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 10:38 AM
  #19
Wild Weasel
User
 
Wild Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 527
Default

Good to know. Thanks Mike!

I've been of the opinion that if the TC steps in to do anything for me, I've already screwed up. My impression is that the systems in a modern Porsche are generally very good and haven't yet had the feeling that they're holding me back from doing anything I want to do.

There's definitely comfort in knowing they're there to bail me out, too.
Wild Weasel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 01:32 PM
  #20
24Chromium
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
24Chromium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NorCal GT4 DE Cup
Posts: 3,058
Default

Great story, thanks for sharing. I hope you realize how rare this is.

My last time instructing, my two students were polar opposites. My morning student was one of the best that I have ever had. My afternoon student... well, let's just say I was questioning how they managed to even drive to the track. By far worst student ever. I went for two off-track excursions on the first lap the student drove. At that point I got out of the car.
24Chromium is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 06:39 PM
  #21
AudiOn19s
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
AudiOn19s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Columbus OH
Posts: 4,008
Default

I had a similar experience with a student last year, ironically in a near stock c7 stingray on runflats.

He very quickly got to red last year and he's more comfortable there then most in that group.

Wish more of the stories went that way.
AudiOn19s is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2016, 04:36 PM
  #22
C-gt3
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
C-gt3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 270
Default

when i read this i immediately thought about the guys in my avatar...
props to you guys who are instructors, i dont think i could do it myself
C-gt3 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2016, 09:27 PM
  #23
TXE36
User
Thread Starter
 
TXE36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 1,995
Default

Originally Posted by C-gt3 View Post
when i read this i immediately thought about the guys in my avatar...
props to you guys who are instructors, i dont think i could do it myself
I thought of them too when I got my assignment that morning .

So glad it went the other way, although I've never tried instructing by using The Force.

-Mike
TXE36 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2016, 05:58 PM
  #24
Gofishracing
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Gofishracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3,186
Default

me too.
Gofishracing is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2016, 07:42 PM
  #25
dnitake
User
 
dnitake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 295
Default

Had a 1st timer student in his friend's spec miata. This is going to be interesting, I thought. At the end of the day, I was so impressed w/ his finesse at learning the track, car control, and situational awareness, I complemented him. "You must be a jet pilot or something". "Well, yeah, I'm an FA-18 pilot... A lieutenant colonel". I should've known, since he was using terms like "energy management" during the sessions. I felt about 2" tall haha!
dnitake is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 02:52 PM
  #26
Dr911
User
 
Dr911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 690
Default

A year into it, my best students have been:

A 20 yr old youth who had done TONS of AX and his DD was a street motorcycle. He could balance his street miata perfectly and was chasing down mustangs/challengers by the end of day 1.

A 16 year old girl who'd been driving 6 months, came to track with a track prepped MiniCooperS. She was able to pick it up SO quickly, trusted me completely, and LISTENED so well, with perfect execution that she was able to catch and recover a spin by the end of day 2.
Dr911 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 04:40 PM
  #27
OmniGLH
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
OmniGLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Far East Side (2000 miles) of Seattle
Posts: 7,154
Default

Originally Posted by TXE36 View Post
One problem is stability control in modern cars is it is getting very, very good and it can be hard from the right seat to feel it going off. On older cars, it was very obvious. Then there is the issue of the stability control catching the car and it begs the question of would the student be able to catch it without the crutch?
SO MUCH THIS.

I've run into this a bit now. It's amazing how transparent modern stability management is. Half the time the dash light doesn't even come on when it's intervening, it just goes and does it's thing. From the right seat, it can be very hard (if not impossible) at times to tell when it's "aiding".


The case I presented here is very unique. This student was gifted in both the skill and judgement departments. He knew turning off the TC would induce some more risk and backed off appropriately, then worked his speed back up. Overall, he wasn't worried about his speed, he was concerned about driving correctly. There were even times he backed off significantly during a session to get his head together and then he speeded up again - like I said, very good judgement.

For cars with intrusive TC, it does eventually get switched off. If it is not intrusive, there is no reason to turn it off other than to verify the driving performance is the driver, not the car.

-Mike
Yeah the older cars, it was obvious. The car would just cut out and fall flat.... there was no missing it. In those cases it really was a good "teaching tool" - because you BOTH had NO doubt it'd just saved the student's butt.

Kudos to you for having the cajones to suggest a student turn it off. Awesome to hear he was great with it... but I'm not sure I could ever suggest it, merely for CYA purposes. I run our regional AX school and *used* to suggest that AX was *the* place to shut off stability management and really get a feel for the car. Then one event, the first official AX event of a new season, new guy fresh out of my school, new car, never driven in any kind of AX event before... went and shut off PSM for his first run of the afternoon... and proceeded to find a tire wall 20+ feet off the edge of the course surface, 3/4 of the way down a straightaway. (We were at a kart track.) Basically exited a corner, car started fishtailing, and he kept the pedal down on the floor and went around and around.... eventually "walking" the car down the tire wall, ensuring all 4 corners of the car took damage.

Never again. I now never officially "recommend" anything other than "leave it on" and "take it off at your own risk." Stinks because I think it hampers driver skill progression but the LAST thing I need is to have a student come back and say, "But he TOLD me to turn it off!"
OmniGLH is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 06:21 PM
  #28
Devil Boy
User
 
Devil Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Phoenix East Valley
Posts: 469
Default

I'll always remember my very first track day instructor. At the time I was driving a 4-cyl Chevy S-10 pickup. Horribly slow but it was mine and it was fun. I knew my place among the horsepower hierarchy and gave point-bys to all of the faster cars. Going down the main straight of old Hawaii Raceway Park as fast at that little thing could go (barely 90mph lol) with BMW's overtaking to pass and my instructor yells, "Don't slow down, make them earn it!" Haha that sticks with me still today.
Devil Boy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 07:29 PM
  #29
Greg Phillips
User
 
Greg Phillips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Deigo
Posts: 247
Default DE student

Sounds like my recent student in a 2015 GT3 at Chuckwalla Valley Raceway. He was in Green group as first time track student but had a Corvette before and was a drag racer. He did very well and just kept going quicker and quicker through the weekend and kept hitting his marks and passing cars. I was sore from holding in 3 point belts at the end of the weekend. It is a technical track with few short straights and lots of sweepers and he (and the GT3) handled it well.
That was in January and this past weekend we were back at CVR going the opposite direction and he was in the time trail group with another instructor and continued to improve and ended up 5th overall in timed runs at 2:01.78 going CCW.

Greg
Greg Phillips is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 08:35 PM
  #30
Carrera51
Addict
Rennlist Member

Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
Carrera51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Keswick, VA
Posts: 3,384
Default

It's fun getting students like that.
Carrera51 is offline  
Reply With Quote
 

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
987part
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
60
06-13-2017 09:44 AM
Slakker
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
38
01-24-2017 06:31 PM
TXE36
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
36
06-29-2016 01:24 AM
TXE36
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
5
06-27-2016 09:38 PM

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 10:49 PM.


Copyright ę 1998 - 2017 Rennlist.com
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: